Have I killed my slave solenoid ? 470.

Rake722 · May 8, 2012

hi all

I was trying to diagnose an ignition issue where I only get 3 volts at the coil tonight and I took a live from the slave sol and put it to the resistance wire on the choke that feeds the coil. Click headed then no volts at coil and no click from solenoid when ignition it switched to run.

I also noted that both wires on the front of the solenoid had continuity to the coil.

Any help greatfully received as hair is starting to fall out here.

Cheers

Ron

achris · May 8, 2012

Re: Have I killed my slave solenoid ? 470.

My lawnmower did the same thing.... Just reverse the wires on the Higgins bosun inductor, put a wire between the flux eliminator and the inverter capacitor and it should momentarily flip into the adjacent universe and when it pops back into this one it will work....

My point is... What are you working on? As in year and model, and serial number if you have it...

Don S · May 8, 2012

Re: Have I killed my slave solenoid ? 470.

I can see the title says 470, but can we start with a year and a Merc serial number if possible?

Rake722 · May 8, 2012

Re: Have I killed my slave solenoid ? 470.

Appologies it has been a back breaking night.

1976 to 79 serial range 377

Vintage mer.

Don S · May 8, 2012

Re: Have I killed my slave solenoid ? 470.

Not sure about your serial number range, the 470's started at 4208730 and go up. Are you sure it's a 470?

no matter what it is, since things go to 0 when you hit the starter, you need to start looking at loose and corroded connections. Not only battery cables (all of them, including ground cables and both ends) but the main harness connectors, even the ones at the helm, and look at any fuses at the helm going to the ignition switch.

achris · May 8, 2012

Re: Have I killed my slave solenoid ? 470.

Don S said:
Not sure about your serial number range, the 470's started at 4208730 and go up. Are you sure it's a 470?

no matter what it is, since things go to 0 when you hit the starter, you need to start looking at loose and corroded connections. Not only battery cables (all of them, including ground cables and both ends) but the main harness connectors, even the ones at the helm, and look at any fuses at the helm going to the ignition switch.

Or a bad battery... Put a voltmeter on the battery POSTS.... Watch the voltage when you do something. It should stay at about 12V (unless cranking)... If it drops significantly, replace/recharge the battery.... (don't ask how I know this, it was a long night for me too, still fighting my oil leak :facepalm

....

Rake722 · May 8, 2012

Re: Have I killed my slave solenoid ? 470.

Hi don and thanks for the advice but the rocker states 470 and according to the
Info section in the manual number 3 which covers the 377 range which were 470's. Unless I miss read the number ??

As for corroded connections I take your point but something I did tonight by bridging the restor wire with the slave caused a click then a short resulting in no volts and no cranking when it was ok befOre.

I did all the main terminations myself and there is no corrosion present on the solenoid starter etc.

There is a 10amp fuse at the ignition barrel that constantly blows now which didn't before and I wonder if the slave is causing that ?

Many thanks for your help

Ron

achris · May 8, 2012

Re: Have I killed my slave solenoid ? 470.

I have manual number 3 open right now, and the range for the 470 is 4886620-6218036.... The first 470 appeared in 1976 and its serial number was 4208730...
Post a photo of the decal on the rocker cover...

Don S · May 8, 2012

Re: Have I killed my slave solenoid ? 470.

Hi don and thanks for the advice but the rocker states 470 and according to the
Info section the manual is number 3 which covers the 377 range which were thee finally 470's.

Where are you getting this 377 range information. No 470 engine serial number started with 377. You might want to post the full serial number of your engine.

I'm trying to look at the proper wiring diagram, and so far, not getting much help in identifying the proper one.

stonyloam · May 8, 2012

Re: Have I killed my slave solenoid ? 470.

From information from previous posts: He has the "older" style 470 with the Prestolite starter (no starter solenoid), with the "standard" slave solenoid. I believe he replaced the starter with a solenoid type starter, but should still have the standard type slave solenoid.

stonyloam · May 8, 2012

Re: Have I killed my slave solenoid ? 470.

As for the solenoid in the "run" position there would only be voltage on one of the large terminals, the large terminal, with the red wire. The two small terminals will be open, and ground. It will only click when you turn the switch to the start position. Check diagram 3A-5 in your manual. If you want to see if the coil is OK run a temporary wire from the battery + to the coil +. You can leave that wire on for a little while, but the coil may start to get hot if left on for a longer period of time.

Rake722 · May 9, 2012

Re: Have I killed my slave solenoid ? 470.

Guys I appologise for the serial number mistake it was my fault.

Serial number I have is a 4773983.

I was so tired last night I got stuborn - sorry

Thanks for the help too, now I am on a PC and not a phone I can type properly and explain.

What I am trying to determine is if I have killed popped or shorted the slave out by removing the resistor wire from the
choke and putting it to each side of the slave in turn. One side gave nothing then when touching the other I heared a click / pop/ quiet bang and since then I blow the iginition barrel fuse and I can no longer get the slave to engage by selecting start position on the ingnition barrel.

Many thanks in advance.

Ron.

stonyloam · May 9, 2012

Re: Have I killed my slave solenoid ? 470.

Couple of questions, does your solenoid look like this (1) http://www.mercruiserparts.com/showSpecialPicture.asp?pn=853654A1 or like this (2) http://www.mercruiserparts.com/showSpecialPicture.asp?pn=25661T1 ? Which end of the resistor wire did you touch to the solenoid, the coil end or the choke end?

Don S · May 9, 2012

Re: Have I killed my slave solenoid ? 470.

I don't know if you damaged the solenoid or not, but here is the wiring diagram for your engine (It's a 77 BTW and you should be using manual #2) and assuming you have the water cooled voltage regulator. But from your discription, it sounds like you have wired in a direct short. Get the wires sorted out and go from there.

View attachment 470 wiring.pdf

Which ever shape of solenoid you have, it must have the S and I small terminals ground as the base to work on your application. Some models look exactly like that, only without the letters and one small terminal is postive and the other is ground and will not work for you.

Rake722 · May 9, 2012

Re: Have I killed my slave solenoid ? 470.

stonyloam said:
Couple of questions, does your solenoid look like this (1) http://www.mercruiserparts.com/showSpecialPicture.asp?pn=853654A1 or like this (2) http://www.mercruiserparts.com/showSpecialPicture.asp?pn=25661T1 ? Which end of the resistor wire did you touch to the solenoid, the coil end or the choke end?

Hi Terry, It looks like the T1 not the A1.

I disconnected the resistor wire from the choke and put that to live on the slave with the intention of giving the coil 12v.

I have since found this -

http://www.hbmmercruiserparts.co.uk/blockparts.php?ind=1592&bid=10

Which implies there is a fuse around here - do you know of this ? As I dont even get the solenoid to click when hitting start this sounds likely that I have blown this fuse ??? (item 29 in the link.)

Thanks in advance.

Ron.

Rake722 · May 9, 2012

Re: Have I killed my slave solenoid ? 470.

Don S said:
I don't know if you damaged the solenoid or not, but here is the wiring diagram for your engine (It's a 77 BTW and you should be using manual #2) and assuming you have the water cooled voltage regulator. But from your discription, it sounds like you have wired in a direct short. Get the wires sorted out and go from there.

View attachment 145558

Which ever shape of solenoid you have, it must have the S and I small terminals ground as the base to work on your application. Some models look exactly like that, only without the letters and one small terminal is postive and the other is ground and will not work for you.

thanks Don,

As soon as I heared the pop / bank / click souind I took out the wire and normalized the wiring but too late - no v to coil. I just get 12V batt to one side of the solenoid not . I now just remembered something else I might have gotten wrong above.

I connected the choke side of the resitor wire to the new starters positive fed from the solenoid. I now cant 100% remember when the sound was heared. On the new starter or when I moved the jumper to the solenoid. Either way its the same area.

That circuit breaker....thats part of the circuit - can it be tested ? just a thought.

Don S · May 9, 2012

Re: Have I killed my slave solenoid ? 470.

I think you need to hook up ALL of your wiring the right way, then see what works. Don't guess. Print out the wiring diagram and go look at your motor, trace the wires and verify they are in the right places.

Rake722 · May 9, 2012

Re: Have I killed my slave solenoid ? 470.

Hi Don, I would love to do that but for the most part this boat has had an engine transplant and as such the wiring has been changed somewhat but it is in the same tate that I bought it in and it worked when I bought it.

Coming to think of it the engine wiring does follow the diagram as it is.

Many thanks

Ron.

Rake722 · May 10, 2012

Re: Have I killed my slave solenoid ? 470.

OK So I went to the boat yard to test my solenoid, removed it and connected the 2 large posts to the multimeter set to measure continuity or resistance and connected the small A post to live and the small B post to ground on the battery as per the manual and when removing the live from the battery the resistance drops from 30 M Ohm to 2.7 Ohms.

Live disconnected - 30 M ohms
Live connected - 2.7 ohms

According to the manual this means the solenoid is good - But I hear no click.

Is this for sure that its good ?

Many thanks

Ron.

p.s. Using wiring diagram
Manual 2 3E12

Although I have now got a pmgr starter with its own throw solenoid.

I have wired the slave yellow to the starter positive post. I then used a jumper from the postive big post to the pos small post and grounded the other negative small post to the block.

Don S · May 10, 2012

Re: Have I killed my slave solenoid ? 470.

OK So I went to the boat yard to test my solenoid, removed it and connected the 2 large posts to the multimeter set to measure continuity or resistance and connected the small A post to live and the small B post to ground on the battery as per the manual

Wrong test for the type solenoid you SHOULD have for that starter motor.
You should have a solenoid with a S on one small terminal and an I on the other.
The S terminal would get voltage from the ignition switch, when that happens, the I terminal adds battery voltage to the coil.

The ground is not either of the small terminals, it's the base that bolts to the engine.

PLEASE, post a picture of your solenoid so we can see what you have.

Have I killed my slave solenoid ? 470.

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