Liable for crashing into dock? Sold boat.

BuzzStPoint · May 8, 2012

A friend of mine sold a boat last summer.
Bought a new one and has been having fun since.

I'm not sure who all he as talked with.
But the basic jist of his problem is someone (possible previous owner or another owner there after) this spring crashed into someones dock. Damaging the dock and minor damage to their pontoon.

The owners seen 2 people run up the dock and through the yards.
My buddy got a visit from the local sheriff basically told him the boat is his and he will probably have to pay the damages and any fines assessed. he told them he sold the boat and basically was told to prove he sold the boat...
Said he has none, Just that he put a for sale sign and someone came up and bought the boat cash. He's spoken to the dock owners and they say the owner of the boat is responsible and that's him.. Apparently the new owners never re registered the boat.

He would like to resolve without a lawyer as he has no idea on the costs of damages as of yet.
Any input?

LippCJ7 · May 8, 2012

Re: Liable for crashing into dock? Sold boat.

They will have to prove it was him or a boat he legally owns for your friend to be legally responsible for the charges(My opinion). they will have to legally sue him to get any damages though and that's not an opinion, once this goes to court as I think it may he should be legally represented but he will absolutely have to prove he is not the legal owner of the boat, was not operating the boat when the damage happened and I would sure as heck do everything I could to contact or help the Police contact the new owner. This is one of those situations where a Bill of Sale is required when I sell vehicles of any kind, to protect me.

ajgraz · May 8, 2012

Re: Liable for crashing into dock? Sold boat.

Not even a receipt or bill of sale? Didn't get the buyer's name?

roscoe · May 8, 2012

Re: Liable for crashing into dock? Sold boat.

He may be sol.

Always 2 copies of the bill of sale, signed by both parties, seller keeps one.

I had this happen to me concerning unpaid parking tickets and towing/impound fees.

Bill of sale and the license plate number of the buyers wife's car set me free.

Now days, I try to snap a photo of them or their car as they leave.

So, they abandoned the boat after the crash ?

Oshkosh1 · May 8, 2012

Re: Liable for crashing into dock? Sold boat.

Unless he has a bill of sale, and title transfer or a police report stating that it was stolen...AND the litigants have evidence/reliable eyewitness testimony...he's liable because legally, it's still his.

This is one reason states have a set time frame to re-register...even though you read/hear "registered until the year 2235" or whatever, it's NOT legal because it's not registered to the legal/rightful owner after 90(or so) days.

ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS get a bill of sale/signature when dealing with motorized modes of transportation or firearms...

Or...since virtually all phones have cameras, snap a pic of the "new" owner hitched up and driving away!

H20Rat · May 8, 2012

Re: Liable for crashing into dock? Sold boat.

What kind of boat? Was it left there? Is it worth more than the damages? Technically it still IS his, so yes, he is responsible for the damage. But on the other side of the coin, offer to give the people the entire boat, since its also technically his boat to give away. If it wasn't left there, you could argue the sale never happened and it is a stolen boat. (of course, standard disclaimer about taking legal advice on an internet board applies, you probably will end up in jail if you listen to any of it!)

Long story short, your buddy is screwed. Always Always Always get a bill of sale. 2 copies, both parties sign and date both copies.

etracer68 · May 8, 2012

Re: Liable for crashing into dock? Sold boat.

I think your buddy is SOL. He will have to prove he sold the boat. I sold a boat, and two years later, I got the renew REG sent to my house. I called the DNR, and sent them the new owners name, address, and cell number, and a copy of the bill of sale. I never heard anything back. But they said how interesting, and also told me that, without the info I was sending them, I would be responible, without proof of sale.

Silvertip · May 8, 2012

Re: Liable for crashing into dock? Sold boat.

The only way to prevent crap like this from happening whether it involves a car, trailer, motor, or boat, you go hand in hand to the local registrar and transfer the title. Period. Done deal. If the buyer refuses, that's a pretty good bet he has no intention of transfering the title or insuring the boat.

GA_Boater · May 8, 2012

Re: Liable for crashing into dock? Sold boat.

Most states require that you notify them within a period of time after the sale. My state is within 15 days send written notice of sale. That would take you off the hook. Especially if you have all the supporting docs.

lakelover · May 8, 2012

Re: Liable for crashing into dock? Sold boat.

Roscoe's advice is perfect, CYA. But too late for that this time. Unfortunate, unless he can prove the boat was sold. If the buyer never re-registered it, your friend will probably be held responsible.

bekosh · May 8, 2012

Re: Liable for crashing into dock? Sold boat.

lakelover said:
Roscoe's advice is perfect, CYA. But too late for that this time. Unfortunate, unless he can prove the boat was sold. If the buyer never re-registered it, your friend will probably be held responsible.

The bad news is this.

The good news is that it sounds like he has an extra boat now that he can sell to help cover the damages.

MarkSee · May 8, 2012

Re: Liable for crashing into dock? Sold boat.

Here in California they want you to file in 5 days and it's called a Notice Of Transfer And Release of Liability

In the instructions it even states that once you file it (can do it right online) you no longer have any liability after the date of sale.
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/forms/reg/reg138.pdf

Mark

BuzzStPoint · May 8, 2012

Re: Liable for crashing into dock? Sold boat.

The boat is a 15-16 foot aluminium. tiller style. Don't remember the engine size.
As far as I know the sheriff has the boat now.
It wasn't worth much..

He may be able to prove it. Not sure.. The person he sold the boat to he kinda knew.. More like a friend of a friend of an aquaintance.
So there is hope.. As for the Reg.. Yeah it had some years on it.. I know he didn't sell it for much as he wanted me to buy it at one time.
I was a cash sale... I'll get more details. We're going to hook up for some beers this weekend so I'll see what's happened this week.

tpenfield · May 8, 2012

Re: Liable for crashing into dock? Sold boat.

FWIW - I take the registration numbers off of the boat when I sell it . . . not that I sell a whole bunch or anything. I assume that he left the registration number on it. :facepalm:

If your friend can at least give the name of the person who he sold the boat to, then that may be enough. Does the boat have a title?

tx1961whaler · May 8, 2012

Re: Liable for crashing into dock? Sold boat.

Silvertip said:
The only way to prevent crap like this from happening whether it involves a car, trailer, motor, or boat, you go hand in hand to the local registrar and transfer the title. Period. Done deal. If the buyer refuses, that's a pretty good bet he has no intention of transfering the title or insuring the boat.

+2 on that one. We go to the tax office and transfer it before it gets turned over, or no sale.

KDAVID1 · May 8, 2012

Re: Liable for crashing into dock? Sold boat.

I never understood why people do not let the DNR or state govt know when they have sold a boat. When I got my boat from my dad (he bought it from a guy in Mississippi) he got it registered in AL, insured, etc. When I registered the boat again in MS--they still showed the original owner as owning the boat-which was about 19 years later-just seems like trouble to me--but I'm new at this (first boat)

roscoe · May 8, 2012

Re: Liable for crashing into dock? Sold boat.

tx1961whaler said:
+2 on that one. We go to the tax office and transfer it before it gets turned over, or no sale.

Really is not practical in most cases, as sales take place on weekends.
Also, many states require it be done by mail.
And I sold 4 boats to out of state buyers in the last 7 years. I certainly am not driving 550 mile to make sure the buyer titles his boat.

roscoe · May 8, 2012

Re: Liable for crashing into dock? Sold boat.

Many states including mine, have no provision for recording the sale or release of liability.

The only info pertaining to this is the following statement.

"If the vehicle will be operated, the buyer must title and register it within two business days after purchase. When the vehicle is titled in the new owner’s name, the vehicle record will be updated to reflect the change in ownership."

Home Cookin' · May 8, 2012

Re: Liable for crashing into dock? Sold boat.

Ah, the internet. Best source of bad legal advice. Next week: how to do your own knee surgery.

No one is liable, criminally or civilly, for damage his boat did. One is only liable, civilly or criminally, for damage he did--whether with his fists, hammer or boat. Do you think you are liable if someone bought, or stole, your flower pot and threw it through a neighbor's window?

Now, his boat being run up on someone else's dock may be evidence that he drove it up on someone's dock, and then you get into the burden of proof, the burden of persuasion, the shifting burdens, etc. and perhaps presumptions. But what you all are saying is called "strict liability" and it doesn't apply.

The closest you may come to this situation is if your boat breaks its moorings and drifts into someone's stuff, but then your liability is based on your act: your failure to secure it.

To the OP: your friend (unless it's you) is now making two mistakes to compound those from the sale: he's asking someone else to get him some legal advice, and he's taking it from an internet forum.

JoLin · May 9, 2012

Re: Liable for crashing into dock? Sold boat.

KDAVID1 said:
I never understood why people do not let the DNR or state govt know when they have sold a boat.

There's no way to do that in NY. When I sold my boat and trailer, I went to DMV to turn in the trailer license plate and asked that very question... 'How do I dis-own the boat in the eyes of the state?' Answer was 'You can't. Hang onto your copy of the sales receipt'

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