problem w. 5.0Gi 1999: Not starting, no fuel from injectors

lars11 · May 1, 2012

Hi, have starting problems with the 5.0gi. We winterized the boat last fall and everything was good. Last week I was going to start it on land after changing plugs to new NGKs, distributor and cap, impeller, fuel filter and drive belts. So:
- Turned the key, the starter was cranking but engine didn't start
- Pulled the cover and flash suppressor off the intake and looked at the injectors and no fuel at all when cranking the engine
- Noticed that there were just a faint "click" when turning the key but no fuel pump sound.
- Thought the pumps were bad so I jump cabled the pump wire at the relay bay and both pumps were making sounds at least
- Tried cranking again and this time there was some dripping from the injectors (probably because I ran the pumps manually before this test) but no starting

What to do? How to find what's wrong?

Secondary question, what's the thread size and type in the block for the knock sensor? It is difficult replacing the brass T-piece due to rusting in the hole in the block...

Don S · May 1, 2012

Re: problem w. 5.0Gi 1999: Not starting, no fuel from injectors

When you turn the key to the run position (Not start position) do you hear the fuel pumps run for 2 seconds then shut off?

When the engine is cranking over, do you have spark? With no spark, the ecm will not allow the injectors to fire.

What is the full model number. ALL those letters after the Gi.

lars11 · May 1, 2012

Re: problem w. 5.0Gi 1999: Not starting, no fuel from injectors

1. No, can't hear the 2 sec pump sound.
2. Have not checked spark, will do. But I can hear "tickeli, tickeli" from the injectors (I think). And they were dripping when cranking after I pressurized the fuel system manually.
3. Where can I find the model number? I have the engine no 4110171746, I think the enigine is a 5.0gipwtr

Don S · May 1, 2012

Re: problem w. 5.0Gi 1999: Not starting, no fuel from injectors

5.0GiPWTR is the model number.

If the pumps don't run, then you have no fuel pressure to the injectors. That should be your first priority at this point is finding out why the pumps don't run.
here is a link to download the diagnostic manual http://www.4shared.com/office/0Tw4me4b/3850078_WT_EFI_Diagnostic.html?
Go to page 6-25 and start. Follow the steps in order.

wkb2460 · May 1, 2012

Re: problem w. 5.0Gi 1999: Not starting, no fuel from injectors

Is your safety lanyard disconnected? That happened to me this year. Took me a few minutes to realize it.

lars11 · May 2, 2012

Re: problem w. 5.0Gi 1999: Not starting, no fuel from injectors

Lanyard: No, I jump connected the lilac wires for the safety lanyard to avoid problems there. Had that issue before, thanks.
Will go to the boat on saturday to do Don's fsm routine. Hope to find the problem then.

lars11 · May 5, 2012

Re: problem w. 5.0Gi 1999: Not starting, no fuel from injectors

Ok, some news then:
1. I have spark.
2. I found one electrical problem! The 20A fuel pump breaker was faulty. When measuring the bolts, I got variable values from 12.3 V to 0 V. Decided to secure the nuts, and snap, one of the bolt were almost completely off deep in the breaker! Shorted it to see what happened and YES, fuel pump ran for two seconds and the injectors were showering in pace when cranking.
3. So now, when cranking, the starter motor suddenly could not keep a steady pace and the engine was halting at times. My conclusion is that the ignition wires are misconnected. Tried to fix according to the small picture in the manual but same result. Almost sure I put the wires in the wrong place.

Can anyone help me finding out exactly where on the distributor cap to put the respective plug wires? I suppose the stamped numbers on the intake says which cylinder is which:

(Front with generator etc.)
port - starboard
1 - 2
3 - 4
5 - 6
7 - 8
(rear with distributor and output shaft)

Ok. Now, where to connect them to the distributor cap???

Don S · May 5, 2012

Re: problem w. 5.0Gi 1999: Not starting, no fuel from injectors

The best thing you can do, is turn the engine to #1 TDC on the COMPRESSION stroke (NOT the exhaust stroke) and look at where the rotor is pointing in the distributor. It will be just coming up to #1 terminal on the cap.
Here is how to find #1 TDC on the compression stroke. http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=427081

The firing order is 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 in a CW direction of rotor rotation from where #1 is.

Here is close to how it was from the factory.

.

BreakOutAnotherThousand · May 5, 2012

Re: problem w. 5.0Gi 1999: Not starting, no fuel from injectors

CW??

Don S · May 5, 2012

Re: problem w. 5.0Gi 1999: Not starting, no fuel from injectors

BrakeOutAnotherThousand said:
CW??

I knew that :facepalm: Not enough coffee at that point.

I edited the post.

lars11 · May 6, 2012

Re: problem w. 5.0Gi 1999: Not starting, no fuel from injectors

THANKS!
The boat is running again, thanks to the excellent help from Don and you guys!
Today I shorted out the 20A breaker and went on to re-position the spark wires on the distributor.
Made a remote starter key wire and put my finger in the no. 1 cylinder hole and cranked forward until I was pretty sure it was at tdc. Showed that the distributor was one off compared to the pictures, the no. 1 plug is at no. 8 position on the distributor. Now I know that too...
Anyways, flash suppressor on and crank! Maybe one turn and the engine started right up! What a feeling. Made a short youtube-clip just to give you guys some feedback. Made a move with the cam to show where I shorted the breaker. Will buy new one tomorrow.

http://youtu.be/QhifmmcoEQQ

Don S · May 6, 2012

Re: problem w. 5.0Gi 1999: Not starting, no fuel from injectors

Can't watch the video, says it private. Glad you got it running.

lars11 · May 6, 2012

Re: problem w. 5.0Gi 1999: Not starting, no fuel from injectors

ok, sorry, try again. It should show now.

wkb2460 · May 6, 2012

Re: problem w. 5.0Gi 1999: Not starting, no fuel from injectors

Secondary question, what's the thread size and type in the block for the knock sensor? It is difficult replacing the brass T-piece due to rusting in the hole in the block...

Did you find out about this thread size? I'm planning to replace mine.

lars11 · May 6, 2012

Re: problem w. 5.0Gi 1999: Not starting, no fuel from injectors

No not yet, seem to be some conical plumber thread, will check with the pipe-guy. My problem is that the threads have rusted in the block so that there are very little left. Will se what I can do about that.

lars11 · May 11, 2012

Re: problem w. 5.0Gi 1999: Not starting, no fuel from injectors

looks like a 1/4 NPT will be the one for the knock sensor... not completely sure though. What I do know is that it is 18 TPI, I will try to get a thread in there, then locktite it in place if I just can get the brass adapter to bite...

lars11 · May 19, 2012

Re: problem w. 5.0Gi 1999: Not starting, no fuel from injectors

Ok, cleared a turn or so of the damaged thread in the block using the old T-piece cutting grooves across the threads and using some oil to remove rust.
Then I put a 1/2 inch long straight brass adapter in there using permanent loctite. I got it seated quite well, phew!
I will not remove this from the block from now on, just remove the knock sensor when winterizing.
Done!

problem w. 5.0Gi 1999: Not starting, no fuel from injectors

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