New pump invented need your input, I am not trying to sell anything

Hello all,

I am new here and this is an absolutely incredible site. Thanks in advance for you taking time to read this and responding.

I am an inventor of pumps.....as a hobby. Yes I know that is a very broad term, but I need advice.

I have a pump that automatically adjusts the gpm to the flow of incoming water. It also adjusts the amperage to accomodate the flow with out using expensive hz. controlls. The rpms stay the same. My question is who could use this type of pump and do you think there is a viable market for this application. To change the gpm the pump adjusts infinately ( within the min and max of the motor range) thus changing the amp load on the motor. The process is very cheap under $10.00. In other words the more water that comes in the more the water is pumped out to the same height. When the input is lower their is less water discharged and so there is lower amp draw. The gpm can be from 1 gpm on the low range up to 120 gpm or much higher on the high end

I know this sounds like a cheesy sales pitch, but I am not trying to sale this yet. The time will come in a year or two but not now. I am still in the building and research stage of this application for this pump. Does this sound like it would work as a bilge pump

Thanks

Jon H.

Re: New pump invented need your input, I am not trying to sell anything

I would think it would be a decent idea as it would run a lower draw on the batteries when there isn't much flow but you would have the confidence of knowing if something bad happened you would have adequate pumping capacity to handle it. Good luck with that. Hope it proves profitable for you.

Re: New pump invented need your input, I am not trying to sell anything

Ps welcome aboard.

Re: New pump invented need your input, I am not trying to sell anything

Thanks for the prompt reply. I will post a picture or video link as soon as I have it enclosed. I am making it variable gpm but at 7 feet head do you think that is all the height needed or should I go higher.

Re: New pump invented need your input, I am not trying to sell anything

Tried to edit my post but I did something wrong......anyway. Just wanted to say thanks for the welcome.....this is a great forum.

Re: New pump invented need your input, I am not trying to sell anything

I want my bilge pump to pump out MORE water than the amount coming in.

Re: New pump invented need your input, I am not trying to sell anything

The 7' head would only be needed on very large boats. However, if your pump can push its rating at that head, it should have a higher rating at, say, 3'.

I m confused though by what you mean when you talk about infliw. Do you mean the level of water in the bilge? Pressure in the intake hose?

Not sure I feel pumping longer at a lower rate gets me anything as far as bilge punps go.

But good luck with your idea and welcome to iboats.

Re: New pump invented need your input, I am not trying to sell anything

Roscoe,

Thanks for the reply....I agree. One of the reasons for going this route is that the pumps out there are either all on or all off and have to be matched to what you think you might be taking on. If bad weather or a disaster happens then you are out of luck. If you prepare for the worst then your battery or charging sys. takes a real hit. The idea is that it will pump more than you take on and clear out the water down to 1/4" and turn itself off. If you take on more then it will always pump out a bit more than you take on. There are some pumps out there that try to do this with two speeds or hz. motor controllers but the price is way to high. This pump does the same but the rpm is not changed so it always pumps to the height you need, what changes is the gpm and it can do that much much cheaper with out having to mess with electronic controller.

Re: New pump invented need your input, I am not trying to sell anything

sorry to say, but its not a viable concept.

The amount of current the pump takes for a bilge is worthless. If you do the math, you are actually losing. For a given amount of water, its going to take X number of amp/hours to pump it. A high load pump running at full throttle will catch up, turn off, and the intermittently cycle itself. The key is that it is running full on, then full off. There is no throttling, and no loss associated with a speed controller of any sort.

Your design most likely just has an RC type speed controller, so instead of running intermittently, you somehow 'know' how much water is coming in, and match the output. (which by definition is impossible to know) Anyway, you have the losses associated with a switching speed controller, mainly heat. The intermittent unthrottled pump will ALWAYS be more efficient in this case.

The only way to make a pump more efficient is use a better motor &/or impeller design. Brushless motors would be a good choice, but are $$$. A better impeller design could also help, but it needs to be able to a) pass small solids, and b) run dry. This pretty much eliminates every single more efficient design possible.

Re: New pump invented need your input, I am not trying to sell anything

Captain,

Our posts crossed so I am editing this one to answer your question. The idea is if you take on a small amount of water you only need a small amp draw to expell it from the bilge. Say 2 amp draw is all you need because of only a small amount of water is in the bilge. The pump will come on and take it out. If you take on much more then the pump will adjust and expel it with more amp draw. It is infinately adjustable, but always pumping up and out at the 7 ft height. Variable amp, variable gpm

Re: New pump invented need your input, I am not trying to sell anything

What is your inlet/outlet hose size??? What is max GPH? I have a project that I have been tinkering with for several years for bass boats and this may be this K.I.S.S solution I been looking for.

Re: New pump invented need your input, I am not trying to sell anything

Seem like a lot of technology and things to go wrong to replace a simple bilge pump and float switch. The pump doesn't operate often enough to worry about power consumption. If it does, one should probably worry about the leak, not the power usage of the pump.

Re: New pump invented need your input, I am not trying to sell anything

I am scared by a "thinking" bilge pump, fearing more parts to fail.
Pump, float switch, hose, seems like enough parts to worry about.

Also, having a hard time grasping how the pump increases output if the rpm stay the same.

What am I missing?


Ooops, Don, you were typing my thoughts while I was refilling my coffee cup.

Great minds ..... lol

Re: New pump invented need your input, I am not trying to sell anything

Thanks everyone for your comments.

I really want to try to stay away from making this sound better than it is because I know the environment in a bilge is horrible at best, under the worst circumstances. I will try to clear up some things though that have been said.

It does not rely on an rc or electronic circuits to change the gpm.
It can run dry as well as wet.
It can handle sand, dirt, gravel as well as any solide up to 3/8" in dia.
one on off switch
It is a new style of impeller and can work with any motor of any rating or hp.
The part that changes the gpm is mechanical not electronic and very simple to add to this type of impeller under $10.00 for the modification. I am not selling this now so please do not think I am asking for money....just trying to give you an idea of cost.

The reason I decided to go this route is because I already had the pump and the attachment was a natural next step. If you bought a rule 1500 but were taking on 30 gpm, or more, then is a bad time to wish you had bought a 3000. So this can act like a pump with low amps to tackle 1 gallon per minute or can tackle up to 90 gpm or more. No electronic brains. It uses a float with out a switch to change the gpm so no extra parts are added. The effeciency is over 85 percent for this style. Amps x volts / 745.69 x 33000 / 8.33 / head = gpm x effeciency for the simple math.

once again thanks for your comments

Re: New pump invented need your input, I am not trying to sell anything

Read smokingcrater's reply again. I agree with him. It takes a certain amount of power to pump out a given amount of water. It basically does not matter what size the pump is, you will draw the same power out of your battery to pump out the water. So, you might as well spring for the bigger pump which will run less time. Why bother with an adjustable pump which will run longer? Nothing to gain here.

Re: New pump invented need your input, I am not trying to sell anything

My 2?

While I have to agree that a bilge pump isn't the right application, I could see an application in a livewell system to eliminate the need for tinkering with the manual adjustments that are found in those applications.

Or completely out of the marine world as a sump pump type of application.

Best of luck to you.

Re: New pump invented need your input, I am not trying to sell anything

I've never been a flat Earth thinker so I don't go along with the theory that it takes x amount of power to move y amount of water. If the OP says this is new thinking we should support him and see what he's proposing. He may have come up with a way to move more water with less power. I, for one, am open to be convinced.

Just as an example: my son has just bought a new (to him) car. It has a 1400cc engine that produces 170 horses. It's not a strange hybrid or anything like that, it's a VW Golf, it uses very little petrol and it's properly quick. If someone had told me this was possible when I was his age I would have had a hard time believing it... yet here we are.

I'd like to hear more.

Re: New pump invented need your input, I am not trying to sell anything

If there is sufficient enough of a leak into the bilges to require a pump to run constantly, at a lower flow rate than normal, I would certainly be more concerned with the leak than pump current draw. Pump on / pump off seems sufficiently simple / adequite for the occasional pump out.

Having a constant water build up in bilges would prompt me to "Find and fix the leak". PS: Bilge pumps on my boat never came on all last season, unless I manually tested them. I have 2 in same bilge incase primary (lowest) one craps out or leak overcomes primary pump.

Re: New pump invented need your input, I am not trying to sell anything

As this pump was "invented" with outside of the box thinking, it's applications would also be outside of the box. As to applications on smaller vessels, I think it is very limited. The can see it having numerous applications in manufacturing and processing. One that comes to mind is in the delivery of concrete to building sites, from the truck to the walls and/or floors.

Re: New pump invented need your input, I am not trying to sell anything

Gosub said:

I've never been a flat Earth thinker so I don't go along with the theory that it takes x amount of power to move y amount of water.

Click to expand...

That's pure and simple physics, very basic high school science. It takes a certain amount of energy to raise fluid a given distance, plus frictional losses. It's not all that difficult to calculate.