DP290 milky oil. How tricky is a seal change?

loco

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Was going through the process of changing the oil and bellows today, but looking at the dipstick the oil was milky white. Very annoying. Saw a seal set for ?65 which isn't bad, but how difficult is a change of seals, realistically speaking? Think these are the seals:

Dipstick, filler, drain plug o-rings (easy)
Gear shift seal
Prop outer seal
Seal between the two prop shafts

I'm reasonably competent mechanically with a decent set of tools, etc. but reading the tech manual quickly there are quite a few special tools mentioned, and I'll need to build a pressure/vacuum tester, etc. Is it going to be a total swine or is it easy enough, but time consuming? There was an awesome step-by step guide on this forum for changing the bellows - anyone know of one for changing the seals?

Thanks in advance.
 

Don S

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Re: DP290 milky oil. How tricky is a seal change?

There is a lot involved in just changing "All" of the seals. Best to just follow the manual. There are a lot of special tools, but if you are creative, you can find other tools that will do the job, especially for pullers and drivers for seals.
 

loco

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Re: DP290 milky oil. How tricky is a seal change?

There is a lot involved in just changing "All" of the seals. Best to just follow the manual. There are a lot of special tools, but if you are creative, you can find other tools that will do the job, especially for pullers and drivers for seals.

OK, further to this one, it's pretty much impossible to to get hold of a trailer this time of year for a boat our size. So, I'm looking for another option. We have a small auxiliary engine and a drying pad 50ft from our mooring. Is it possible to dry the boat out, take the leg off, then get a large tapered disk shaped piece of wood and effectively plug the hole in the bellows with it, tightening up the jubilee. I can then stick the boat back in the mooring, take the leg away to work on it, then do the reverse between tides to get the leg back on.

A friend says he's seen it being done - can you buy plugs designed for this purpose? If so, what are they called?


Thanks in advance.
 

billbayliner

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Re: DP290 milky oil. How tricky is a seal change?

I don't know about plugging off the bellows. I suppose that you could.
The thing is, you don't need to remove the whole drive, just the transmission and lower unit for a complete reseal. It's much easier this way, unless you have suspension fork or intermediate work to do.

The drive can be resealed in 5-6 hours baring that you don't need to replace the main drive gear bearings, of which you should take a look at anyway especially if V8 powered.
If this is a pre A 290, be very careful when removing the four bearing box clamping collar bolts. Apply heat to the main gear case before you try to remove them.

What would it cost to leave the boat out for a day or over night?
 

loco

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Re: DP290 milky oil. How tricky is a seal change?

I don't know about plugging off the bellows. I suppose that you could.
The thing is, you don't need to remove the whole drive, just the transmission and lower unit for a complete reseal. It's much easier this way, unless you have suspension fork or intermediate work to do.

The drive can be resealed in 5-6 hours baring that you don't need to replace the main drive gear bearings, of which you should take a look at anyway especially if V8 powered.
If this is a pre A 290, be very careful when removing the four bearing box clamping collar bolts. Apply heat to the main gear case before you try to remove them.

What would it cost to leave the boat out for a day or over night?
Thanks for the reply!
Sorry - that's what I meant. I was going to follow this guide: http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192770 , removing the upper transmission and lower gearbox, then plug the bellows that remain.

I'll get the seals changed - either myself or by an official volvo engineer (quoted ?90 labour, so not too bad), then do the reverse, stick on new bellows while remounting the leg to the forks, and bob's your uncle.

Doing the seals between tides is still too risky I think. If you come up with an issue (bearing shot, need to order in a new one, etc.) you're going to be in trouble or waste a lot of time.

Over here they want to charge nearly ?300 ($480) to have the boat removed and stored on legs for 2 weeks using a hydraulic sling system. All trailers are unavailable at the minute, so we're pretty short on other options.
 

Don S

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Re: DP290 milky oil. How tricky is a seal change?

It's beginning to sound like you may have a bellows problem. When was the last time the ujoint bellows was replaced? Sounds like you are in salt water also. Have you heard a strange growling noises from behind the engine?
Sounds like this boat sits in the water all the time, maybe year round. Is that so?
 

loco

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Re: DP290 milky oil. How tricky is a seal change?

It's beginning to sound like you may have a bellows problem. When was the last time the ujoint bellows was replaced? Sounds like you are in salt water also. Have you heard a strange growling noises from behind the engine?
Sounds like this boat sits in the water all the time, maybe year round. Is that so?
Could well be the bellows - would a leak in there get into the oil? They're just under 2 years old, hence me changing them.

As for odd noises - nothing too too bad, only we do get a bit of a click at full lock. I was going to check the CV joint at the same time and change the unit if it's bad.

Yes - the boat's in salt water all year round, which isn't ideal. We take it out once a year to change the anodes and whatnot. This year is a bellows year, which I've not done before.
 

Don S

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Re: DP290 milky oil. How tricky is a seal change?

If the bellows leak, and water gets in, the front seal in the drive is not designed to keep water out, only oil in. So when the drive is warm and cooling down after use, it will suck water into the drive.
On a boat that's in the water year round, I would STRONGLY suggest you change that bellows yearly. It's a very easy job, and you don't have to remove the drive, only the upper gear box. Should take only an hour or less to change the bellows and the gear lube.
if there is water in the bellows, and it got past the seal in the flywheel cover, you could very well have the primary shaft bearing/s going bad too. You will have to look at that when the upper gear box is off. It very well could mean an engine pull to repair.

Here is a thread on replacing the bellows. http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=309095
 

billbayliner

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Re: DP290 milky oil. How tricky is a seal change?

Thanks for the reply!
Sorry - that's what I meant. I was going to follow this guide: http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192770 , removing the upper transmission and lower gearbox, then plug the bellows that remain.
I'll get the seals changed - either myself or by an official volvo engineer (quoted ?90 labour, so not too bad), then do the reverse, stick on new bellows while remounting the leg to the forks, and bob's your uncle.

Doing the seals between tides is still too risky I think. If you come up with an issue (bearing shot, need to order in a new one, etc.) you're going to be in trouble or waste a lot of time.

Over here they want to charge nearly ?300 ($480) to have the boat removed and stored on legs for 2 weeks using a hydraulic sling system. All trailers are unavailable at the minute, so we're pretty short on other options.
In that forum you linked to, the guy removes the whole drive.
BTW, that is a C drive. Don's link is for the 290 style.

If you remove the transmission and lower unit only, and plan to plug the flywheel cover opening, this leaves the intermediate housing to get wet if you put the boat back in the water.
Don't forget that the lower unit vertical shaft bearing race is in the intermediate housing and will get wet and rust. I suppose you could remove the race and shims, and then clean out the intermediate when you go back together.

Ditto Don S. If your PDS bearings got wet, it's time to replace them. My guess is you have the red 1 pc flywheel cover. This will be a 2 bearing PDS and the motor needs to be pulled to change them.
Do it, or you will have an expensive failure later on. Probably sooner than later.
 

loco

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Re: DP290 milky oil. How tricky is a seal change?

Yeah that's not great news.

For the sake of the pins and hydraulic trim mounts, it makes sense to me to whip off the whole drive. Presumably if the bellows have failed, when I loosen them water will come out. If that's the case we're probably looking at an engine pull as the bearing on the primary shaft will have gotten wet. This is particularly annoying as we likely won't be able to get much fixed this side of summer looking at the queues in the engineering shops, never mind the costs involved.

If no water comes out of the bellows, I'll bung the CV joint bellows as well as the exhaust, if that's what we need to do and get the other seals changed. Presumably if the bellows have failed, I'm wasting my time taking the leg off as I need to put the boat some place and take the leg and engine out?

Having said this,when I took the props off, I did find some rope caught in the prop shaft and under the metal cap that first goes on when you install the props. This suggests we went through some rope, which I heard can damage the prop shaft seals. That would be a nicer, less painful issue...
 

billbayliner

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Re: DP290 milky oil. How tricky is a seal change?

First look at your flywheel cover. If it's red and has a grease fitting, it will be the 2 bearing PDS and the motor needs to come out to replace the two bearings and seals.
If it's charcoal gray, and w/o the grease fitting, someone has replaced it.
This will be a single sealed bearing PDS and will come out the rear w/o pulling the motor, just like the 4 cylinder PDS, baring no rust at the front splines.

Also, since you've seen water in the bellows, look at the helmet pin bolts. If someone put bolts in that are too long, they'll push through the aluminum collar and will leak water into the drive shaft area.
 

loco

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Messages
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Re: DP290 milky oil. How tricky is a seal change?

First look at your flywheel cover. If it's red and has a grease fitting, it will be the 2 bearing PDS and the motor needs to come out to replace the two bearings and seals.
If it's charcoal gray, and w/o the grease fitting, someone has replaced it.
This will be a single sealed bearing PDS and will come out the rear w/o pulling the motor, just like the 4 cylinder PDS, baring no rust at the front splines.

Also, since you've seen water in the bellows, look at the helmet pin bolts. If someone put bolts in that are too long, they'll push through the aluminum collar and will leak water into the drive shaft area.

Right - I've taken a couple of videos, the first out of gear, then second I put in gear. At idle, it sounds OK to me, but the second you hear the ticking. I'm thinking that might be the CV joint, but what do you think:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-7IBkAVdSw

in gear:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kb6tLK6jezc
 

Don S

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Re: DP290 milky oil. How tricky is a seal change?

You need to get the boat out of the water, the upper gear box off and check for water in the bellows and water in the primary drive shaft bearings. The could be fine if the seal held, but, as the shaft gets rusty the seal goes away.

Once you get the upper off, remove the aft seal in the flywheel cover. If the grease looks normal and only dirty, great. But if it looks milky and a lighter color than dirty grease. Well, you have now run into the worse case situation.
 
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