painting help

Need some advice from the experts. I painted my boat last summer not too happy with my work. The paint looked good. After I painted but within a month not so much. I was thinking of painting hunter green with metal flake. My question is can I just sand the current paint and apply the green or do I need to sand all the way down to the old gel. The current paint is rusto primer and paint with hardner no clear coat.

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What is it that you don't like about it? Just the color combo? Is it fading, flaking, peeling, What????

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Ayuh,.... Polish, 'n wax it, rather than sandin' it off....

Metal flake is not an easy task, if ya want it to look Right....

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I don't like the color scheme too loud so if I do repaint do I need to sand all the way back to tell or just prep to paint over existing paint?

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Scuff it with 150, and finish with 220. Then Prime and Paint as you did before. Check the last link in my signature. Has a lot of good "How To's " for your painting.

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Thank you

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Do you know what Paint product you are going with ? ..

In some cases you might have to apply a 'tie coat primer' before the prime and paint application.

I am assuming that your talking about "metallic paint" and not "flake". There is a difference.

Kinda need to know what system you plan on spraying before we can tell you the best way to go.

YD.

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YD is correct and I forgot to address this. You did mention metal flake. I would have to agree with Bond-o and NOT go with metal. Hard to shoot and you really need to have the equipment and a paint booth. I was ASSUMING and that is BAD that you were going to use Rustoleum again. If you do, then my advice is good. If you use some other paint then YD is correct in that you need to check with the MFG of the paint to determine the correct primer to tie the two together. Thanks for catching me on that DOC!!!!

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Ok so when I go to buy paint I need to tell them what is on it now which is rustoleum and make sure that the primer will bond to it? And metal flake y is that not good I have read that using a 1.8m tip with the clear and flake is not a difficult task. Just make sure that it is keep mixed up in the clear good. As far as a paint booth it will be done in my garage in a makeshift booth.

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If you stay with the light metal flake then you may get by with it, but lots of work. Base Color coat then metal mixed in clear, color sanding, then more clear, then more color sanding then more clear. You have to tear the gun completely down to clean it. Every single part has to be taken out and cleaned and inspected. If it's worth it for you as a DIY'er to do on your boat then go for it. Post pics of your results.

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So u suggest using a metallic paint instead? Then just clearing that's real good.

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I'm saying, if you want to use a metallic paint, I would recommend the small flake, not the large flake. The way you apply metalflake is typically you shoot a solid color base coat and then mix the flake in with clear coat and shoot if over the color base coat. Then the work begins with color sanding(wet sanding with dish soap in the water) http://www.automedia.com/Color-Sanding_and_Buffing/res20030601cs/1and then more clear and more sanding and more clear. You need to Google "How to Shoot Metal Flake Paint" You will learn a lot. It's not as easy as it sounds to get a good even coat of the flake. I can pool up on you and not look like it's evenly dispersed in the paint.

Re: painting help

maagee79 said:

Ok so when I go to buy paint I need to tell them what is on it now which is rustoleum and make sure that the primer will bond to it? And metal flake y is that not good I have read that using a 1.8m tip with the clear and flake is not a difficult task. Just make sure that it is keep mixed up in the clear good. As far as a paint booth it will be done in my garage in a makeshift booth.

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Mixing flake into Just clear and leaving that as a topcoat is not advisable .. you will need to Clear over that to cover any exposed flake that 'stood up' exposed to the surface.

There are a few different methods ..

Base coat/Clear coat. .. this is where you would spray the Base color ( yes the metallic is in the base color ). Then you spray Clear over the base color coat. The clear will 'move/shift/stand' the metallic in the base. Then you wet 'cut and polish' ( wetsand and buff the clear ).

Metallic Paint ( like Imron or Awlgrip ) .. This is a metallic paint that is color+metallic+clear all in ONE mix. You would shoot this just like any other regular paint. It is advisable to Clear over this for longevity. In fact .. Awlgrip ( or awlcraft2000 ) tells you that you must clear over there paint. Its not a base/coat clear system though.

The above two methods to not require you to sand between any of the coats. Its coat after coat ( the awlgrip has a particular window that you have to abide by though ).

It worries me that you are going to attempt this in a make shift tent in your garage. .. .. If you have never sprayed Clear then let me warn you .. it can become overwhelming depending on your equipment.

Gelcoat Metalflake .. This is kinda like a basecoat/clearcoat system. Beware .. One small slip of the trigger..or hand motion and your screwed. One bad calculation on your mix .. your screwed. I would suggest staying away from this method as it is Very hard to precisely guide anyone over the net how to properly do this. Even if we wrote a book here on Iboats .. when it came right down to the application there is no way to guide you.

If you have some other type/system of paint that your thinking of..please post it up ..

YD.

PS. Woody is spot on about cleaning your gun(s) after spraying clear. You clean it..then clean it..then clean it again. You can not see the clear and your gun could be worthless after you thought you cleaned it good enough.

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Ok that helps tremendously. So if I were to uses this paint here.



High solids, high build finish Extremely fast drying Sprayable using conventional or HVLP equipment Abrasion and impact resistant Outstanding durability Sharp automotive gloss appearance High distinctness of image (DOI) Excellent color retention and fade resistance Outstanding resistance to gasoline and diesel fuel Excellent flexibility and adhesion over primed surface 25 premium colors available with new colors being added all the time Superior flow out and leveling High UV formula contents protects against fading Offers superior durability over other single stage finishes Can be applied as a single stage acrylic urethane or top coated

Hawthorne "Starfire" Acrylic Urethane Auto Paint is a premium quality, single-stage OEM/Refinishing System which provides excellent gloss and durability in an easy to apply economical single-stage package. Its advanced urethane formula provides unsurpassed durability and gloss. Hawthorne Starfire Urethane Acrylic is a state-of-the-art, 2.8 VOC formulation providing excellent resistance to solvents, chemicals, gasoline, fading, chipping, abrasions and scratches. Starfire provides a high degree of UV protection to help keep vehicles looking glossy and deep in color for years.

Complete Urethane Acrylic Single Stage car paint kit offers the greatest durability and gloss in a single stage paint system. It includes one gallon of our Premium Urethane Acrylic car paint, 1 pint Urethane Activator and 1 quart medium speed Urethane Reducer, 1 Disposable Respirator, 3 Paint Strainers and 3 Stir sticks. This kit includes everything you need to paint your car. Ratio is 8 parts paint, 2 parts Urethane Reducer, 1 Part Urethane activator.

I would apply the primer, paint, clear with flake, sand with say 2000, then clear a second time

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I apologize if im asking the same questions and such. I just thought I was one par with the painting last summer and was obviously wasn't.

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Yacht Dr. said:

Base coat/Clear coat. .. this is where you would spray the Base color ( yes the metallic is in the base color ). Then you spray Clear over the base color coat. The clear will 'move/shift/stand' the metallic in the base. Then you wet 'cut and polish' ( wetsand and buff the clear ).

PS. Woody is spot on about cleaning your gun(s) after spraying clear. You clean it..then clean it..then clean it again. You can not see the clear and your gun could be worthless after you thought you cleaned it good enough.

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Interesting. I've never seen metal applied to the base coat. Base coat was always just the color and the metal was in the first coat of clear and then followed by wet sanding and additional coats of clear with no more metal to get the depth you wanted. Adding to the first coat of clear, I was told, suspended the metal in the clear and gave it more depth and more sparkle. That was quite a few years back when metal flake was in it's infancy and maybe just the painters I hung with had been sniffing lacquer thinner to long!!!! It's not just the clear that messes up the gun it's the stinking metal flake. It seems to get everywhere!!!!

Re: painting help

maagee79 said:

Ok that helps tremendously. So if I were to uses this paint here.

I would apply the primer, paint, clear with flake, sand with say 2000, then clear a second time

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That stuff is basically Imron .. AU. If it does not have the metallic in it from the get go then you can see if they can add some.

No .. you dont add the metallic in the clear alone. There are some that spray the basecoat .. add there first mix of clear to a little basecoat..then clear 3-X times.

Woodonglass said:

Interesting. I've never seen metal applied to the base coat. Base coat was always just the color and the metal was in the first coat of clear and then followed by wet sanding and additional coats of clear with no more metal to get the depth you wanted. Adding to the first coat of clear, I was told, suspended the metal in the clear and gave it more depth and more sparkle. That was quite a few years back when metal flake was in it's infancy and maybe just the painters I hung with had been sniffing lacquer thinner to long!!!! It's not just the clear that messes up the gun it's the stinking metal flake. It seems to get everywhere!!!!

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Its Base coat ( with all the solids ) then Clearcoat ..

You might be thinking of a color coat ( basically a primer color coat ) before the Base gets sprayed.

The base coat drys almost right now ! LOL .. you spray your base coat .. Tack your base coat.. then Clear X times.

Most pros for BCCC have two guns. One is for the Bases .. the other is for the Clear only.

Clear coat will FOG you !! I mean .. warning! it atomizes Very well. You think your paint fogs..wait till you pull the trigger on the Clear LOL.

YD.

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Does this sound like a winner here? This is what I used last time. Might have been the problem.



20oz. Hvlp gravity feed.

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You can try a test spray with that HF gun ..

You never know what your going to get out of the box when buying those things..some work..some dont.

Look at your paint product label. It should tell you what guns/tips pressure etc. should be used. If not..then call up tech support for the product.

YD.

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Ok thank you.