Back to square one!!! ted williams help

axeman1988 · Mar 22, 2012

:facepalm: well its been a while had some life changing stuff happen to me so had to stop on this motor for a while now i'm through and back to work on this darn motor. my question is if anyone know's of a carb swap that you can do to these sears sold eska built tecumseh power head motors i've done everything possible to this carb, rebuild, the works and it still wants to die under a load any thoughts??

sutor623 · Mar 22, 2012

Re: Back to square one!!! ted williams help

axeman1988 said:
:facepalm: well its been a while had some life changing stuff happen to me so had to stop on this motor for a while now i'm through and back to work on this darn motor. my question is if anyone know's of a carb swap that you can do to these sears sold eska built tecumseh power head motors i've done everything possible to this carb, rebuild, the works and it still wants to die under a load any thoughts??

Hopefully Mr. Crabs is out and about. He helped me start to figure out my little Tecumseh type engine. Not a lot of info on the internet about these guys is it?

sutor623 · Mar 22, 2012

Re: Back to square one!!! ted williams help

Whats the year, hp, and compression reading?

mrcrabs · Mar 23, 2012

Re: Back to square one!!! ted williams help

Yeah what sutor said first,
carbs are no problem, they either work or they don't usally.
crappin out under load sounds like fuel restriction off the top, have you checked the screen in the tank or the one behind the flapper valve? pump bladder installed at the correct angle? theres also the SSI problem's, C1 capacitor gets hot and loses values or on points models gap is incorrect or points are pitted

axeman1988 · Mar 26, 2012

Re: Back to square one!!! ted williams help

well gents this is what i can remember with out looking at the darn thing not at home right now, but i believe its a 72 eska built 15 horse ted williams the power head is a tecumseh. well the screen in the tank was damaged, i fixed it and put a inline screen filter on my fuel line going to my carb just to make sure anything would be caught.... flapper valve???? not sure what that is. also here is the kicker and i don't know if this is cause i'm in california or what but the thing doesn't have bladder style fuel pump that sits in the carb itself it has a external fuel pump that is actuated off of crankcase pressures. crazy right... as far as the solid state ingnition problems i'd have to check it out i know it sure will zap you on both cylinders while running i found out by acident but i probably need to check compression too does anyone know what compression each cylinder should be at??... as of now the carb has a new needle viton seat, bowl gasket and i've cleaned the living stuff out of it, but the thing is that the impulse fuel pump as a diapham that i cannont find a replacement for it doesn't apperar to be torn or have any holes i've looked with a magnafiying glass very intently to make sure it was okay so i'm at a loss of what to do with the carb but i'm going to test the compression and the ingnition and go from there

mrcrabs · Mar 26, 2012

Re: Back to square one!!! ted williams help

did you pull the old welch plug and clean the jets? thats where the carp ends up if it gets through.
also I see on ebay a replacment diaphragm for your fuel pump just today, I think CPC has them, your carb is not a california special because of that fuel pump but it opens up a lot of replacment options for you

axeman1988 · Mar 26, 2012

Re: Back to square one!!! ted williams help

well the welch plugs are the only thing i didn't pull because i couldn't find replace ment plugs and my local small engine mechanic said i shouldn't have to pull them if i cleanded it well and fuel hadn't laquered up in the carb which it hadn't one question there is a welch plug at the bottom of the carb when you take the bowl off near where the main jet is, its the larger of the two, behind that plug is there jets?? if there is i will pull it, also is there other plugs that will work?? ie.... briggs and stratton?

mrcrabs · Mar 27, 2012

Re: Back to square one!!! ted williams help

anyplace theres a welch plug there's a high possabilty for jet blockage and corruption, your local small engine mechanic is wrong minded to say such a thing, I Am a small engine mechanic and the first thing I do is pop out the welch plugs, I also believe in inline filters and 100 count wire screens. as far as welch plugs go any outboard shop will have a selection and any engine makers part will work as long as the correct diameter is used

Could you give me the model number from your 15hp and if you have it off maybe the carb bore at the rear or the intake housing, I'm curious if you have a 380 0r 381 engine

axeman1988 · Mar 27, 2012

Re: Back to square one!!! ted williams help

well i pulled the plugs clean as whistles in there.... did a compression test with a automotive tester that i'm not to confident in and maybe maybe if it is acurate got 20psi in both cylinders. also in the carb for the idle adjustment screw which is the only adjustment screw in the bottom of the carb in this needles housing there apperars to be a small black ball visible from the bottom, is this ball supposed to be stationary or is it supposed to be moving... info on my motor is it is modle number 217-58631-1 serial number 6d-112526 the powerhead unit is a tecumseh 381-b 7823367. the carb numbers the only ones i could find on the thing are 523 6D8 also on the side a 304... so there are all the markings on the thing any help is appreciated

mrcrabs · Mar 27, 2012

Re: Back to square one!!! ted williams help

Well your outboard model number doesn't show it on the diagrams 217-58631-1 but your engine number proves it out to be an external pump model (381b), it is a 1976 model and you may be right about the California thing, may be all the external pump models went to California....thats intersting in and of it self although the manuals don't make mention of that as a fact,
So looking forward you may have to get creative and swap in a briggs & Stratton type pulse pump or a mikuni if you come up empty handed for parts, have you tried to call the people at www.certifiedpartscorp.com I know there are replacment parts out there, Tecumseh used that pump on alot of different applications.

mrcrabs · Mar 28, 2012

Re: Back to square one!!! ted williams help

It was so late last night when I answered you post I didn't get to all of it...sorry, 20 psi is surely not right but that they both measured the same is a good sign...hopeful anyway

also in the carb for the idle adjustment screw which is the only adjustment screw in the bottom of the carb in this needles housing there apperars to be a small black ball visible from the bottom,

are you saying theres an adjustment screw in the bottom of the carb bowl? these carbs are emissions carbs, the power jet is fixed and unadjustable, the only adjustment you have is the idle jet. The black ball is a check valve.

bjbmedic · Mar 28, 2012

Re: Back to square one!!! ted williams help

My 15 is a 76 with the external pump and it's from Iowa so Cali didn't get all of them
B

mrcrabs · Mar 28, 2012

Re: Back to square one!!! ted williams help

I been thinkin on that subject today...a little....can't really see any good reason a external pump would benifit a calyfornia emissons standards way back then unless they knew the duckbill bladders were prone to falure and dumping raw gas & oil down the leg....LOL,
I hear you have to pay a gas tax to just fart out there now

todd ashley peters · Mar 28, 2012

Re: Back to square one!!! ted williams help

i'd be taxed to death out there. all of my 15s have had the external pump on them. unfortunatly the rebiuld kits are not avail. i got an aftermarket one from certified, about 40$. one still has the old pump and it works well. i've also swaped an omc and made an adapter for the vac end, this also was satisfactory.maybe they started in 76 and ended?i agree with crabs on the welch plugs, if you dont remove them and clean behind them its only half a rebiuld and wont solve anything. one thing i have come to respect about the twins is that everything on them has to work propper or it wont propper.

axeman1988 · Mar 28, 2012

Re: Back to square one!!! ted williams help

well i've tried to contact certified parts corp before to no avail always busy signal on my phone. but yeah your right crabs its the idle jet screw but is the check valve ie.. the little black ball supposed to move cause mine does not move at all. yeah i'm going to buy a better compression tester today i think the one i used is wrong... its from the 80's and is all plastic. personally i feel its a piece of chicken squeezings .... so i've been researching other ways around the impulse pump and i think i would go with the mikuni to replace the one i have if it turns out to be the problem.... yeah the taxes out here suck and with the price of fuel these days at 4.30 a gallon

of unleaded i wouldn't want to be running any of it down the leg of my outboard lol

axeman1988 · Mar 28, 2012

Re: Back to square one!!! ted williams help

ah this thing is nothing but problems.... so i get a good compression tester today and a spark tester and test first compression one good pull of the pull start give's me a reading of 80-90 psi in both cylinders.. so then i test spark.... and have good spark in bottom cylinder but low and behold the top cylinder is dead.... nothing.... so what is it now... points..... or what i'm lost and fear this may be the final straw before i throw this thing to the scrap heap.:facepalm:

mrcrabs · Mar 29, 2012

Re: Back to square one!!! ted williams help

We feel your pain but before you scrap it for not firing on the top I suggest cleaning the (PT) coil terminals and check for fire if not then pull the flywheel, be for darn sure you scribe a mark between stator and block so you can put it back in the same place and not screw with the timing.....then on the bottom of the offending module remove the glue from the terminals and remove and clean them them one by one...leave the grounds alone and of course your good module, if that fails to produce fire from the top cylinder then you have a dead module and most likley a failed C1 Capacitor, a cheap fix is possible.

more info here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eskaoutboards/

I love the smell of burning epoxy in the morning...it smells like victory!

todd ashley peters · Mar 29, 2012

Re: Back to square one!!! ted williams help

here's a pic of my omc cure for the fuel pump. works great. this particular 15 is very lively, thats why i 've kept it for quite some time.

.
but thats not likley your issue now but good to know.mrcrbs here is the expert, i'd just begrudgingly give up the 200$. the cdi that i tried to fix i ground right through "stuff" and didnt even real see much until i killed it dead. did a good job at hollowing the thing out though. can't be good at everything. i wont bother to send the picof that!

axeman1988 · Mar 29, 2012

Re: Back to square one!!! ted williams help

mrcrabs said:
We feel your pain but before you scrap it for not firing on the top I suggest cleaning the (PT) coil terminals and check for fire if not then pull the flywheel, be for darn sure you scribe a mark between stator and block so you can put it back in the same place and not screw with the timing.....then on the bottom of the offending module remove the glue from the terminals and remove and clean them them one by one...leave the grounds alone and of course your good module, if that fails to produce fire from the top cylinder then you have a dead module and most likley a failed C1 Capacitor, a cheap fix is possible.

more info here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eskaoutboards/

I love the smell of burning epoxy in the morning...it smells like victory!

well..... this is an uneducated man talking but here goes so i got a electronic tester does resistance ect ohms stuff like that.... so i before reading your valuble information... pulled the flywheel and took off stator.....

..... but fortunatly for me there are permanent screw marks on it from the heads of the stator screws... lucky me i guess.. so i was able to position it back on the block the way it came off. so then i proceed to clean the coil terminals both and the flywheel magnets and everything i that could possibly due with the ignition system... then i took my tester and tested the terminals from the coils to the end of the wires checked out good wired. put it all back to gether and still top cylinder is dead. but the bottom fired good... so the c1 capacitor where do i get that part??

mrcrabs · Mar 30, 2012

Re: Back to square one!!! ted williams help

Your Ohm meter is just about worthless when it comes to Solid State ignition and,......
its not so much were do I get ithe part but where do I put it and how?, I refer you back to the Yahoo group. Ask there, look through the picture and posts, Ed Stoller is updating his web site to include the twin repair. When Ed is finished I will post the new link here but at this time I think he said his band width was challanged because the updated site is on his ISP's server.

I have a heavy date with a few Crappie today so I got to run, I will see if I can give you a better answer tonight.

Back to square one!!! ted williams help

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