How to factor engine rebuild for pricing?

I am looking at this boat http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/boa/2911574914.html buthaving difficulty reconciling the NADA value of about $6500 average retail. Makes me wonder how much an engine rebuild adds to pricing if indeed it adds at all. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance...

Re: How to factor engine rebuild for pricing?

at nearly 20 years old a recently rebuilt motor may make it worth a little more than average, however i dont think 40% more.

that said it all depends on how much you like the style, and if you can verify the rebuild, i would still think that its a little to expensive.

if you water test it and it lives up to expectation why not offer him the nada value and work up from there

Re: How to factor engine rebuild for pricing?

If someone is selling a recently rebuilt motor, there can be one of two reasons. (Other than if they do it for a living)

1. The rebuild did not go as well as planned

2. The owner is sick and tired of looking at/working on the thing, and no matter what it just doesnt make them happy.

In either case, a serious price adjustment can be made.

I used to rebuild and modify cars to sell them. It took MONTHS to get back what I had into it in time and money.

Re: How to factor engine rebuild for pricing?

A rebuilt engine does NOT add value to the boat. I repeat, do not pay more for a boat because it has a rebuilt engine in it! And DO NOT start with NADA value and go "up" from there. I have waxed extensively about this issue elsewhere, but suffice it to say; you as the potential buyer, do not have the burden of paying for the deliberate and willing upgrades/repairs that the current owner made to his vehicle! Those expenses are HIS loss, and if he doesn't want to sell the boat for what the market will support (that means you, buyer) then he can remove his awesome booming sound system, his silly useless whale tail, the stainless "steal" prop (Freudian slip perhaps?) "oversized" bimini top and other doo-dads. Now the boat is closer to market price.

As far as all the trailer repairs...again, same answer. Those are all required maintenance and wear items. Stuff breaks and needs replaced/repaired inevitably. He chose to make those repairs at his expense. In automotive sales, sellers cannot reasonably expect a buyer to "pay" for every repair made to the vehicle in its entire history now can they? And sutor623 is right on all of his points.

I would tread these waters carefully and get a veteran boat owner to do a survey with you...whatever boat you decide to buy.

Good luck!

Re: How to factor engine rebuild for pricing?

rbyham said:

I am looking at this boat http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/boa/2911574914.html buthaving difficulty reconciling the NADA value of about $6500 average retail. Makes me wonder how much an engine rebuild adds to pricing if indeed it adds at all. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance...

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To be the devil's advocate here.......

1. The NADA "Avg retail" is for boats of average condition. NADA states above average boats may command a premium price above avg retail. If this boat is in exceptional condition, the asking price could easily be higher than average NADA retail.

2. NADA prices do not include the trailer, which this boat does include and add states it has been well maintained. This adds to asking price too.

3. Sellers usually ask high prices, as buyers usually offer low prices. Economics 101 dictates a seller ask higher than what they will actually accept so a little haggling can occur and both buyer and seller walk away happy, thinking they each got the best of the other and a good deal.

Bottom line, if boat is exceptional, in great condition and is what you really want, then go for it and make an offer you feel comfortable with. You may just be surprised what a "motivated seller" will accept. If not, keep looking, as it's a buyer's market, but probably the worst time of year to buy. Boat prices are always higher this time of year, vs: in the fall and winter.

Just my humble opinion..... I looked for 2 years for the boat I wanted at a price I considered fair, and got it. Could I have found one cheaper? Absolutely. Could I have found one in better shape? Possibly..
Could I have found one in better shape and cheaper? I don't think so. After all, she is a 20 year old boat.......

Re: How to factor engine rebuild for pricing?

I'm siding with Silly Seville- particularly in this used-boat market, he can't sell it AT ALL if it doesn't run. Bottom line, NADA value supposes that everything on the boat is in good working condition. If that 'recent' rebuild was like, last year, it might add a few bucks, but likely not. The boat's way overpriced as it sits right now.

His use of the word 'recent' instead of specifying the year of the rebuild leads me to believe it was a few years ago. Finally, you need to determine the extent of the rebuild. I'd want to see the receipts. Was it a Q&D, $500. short block job, a remanufacture engine by Jasper or similar... or something in between?

My .02

Re: How to factor engine rebuild for pricing?

Do working to a vehicle/vessel does add value. On an engine rebuild, it might add 5-10% and nothing more. It would help speed the rate of sale against similar vehicles if all other things are somewhat equal.

Re: How to factor engine rebuild for pricing?

Do a sea trial with a someone who knows boats or a reliable mechanic (yours and his mechanic would be ideal) before settling on a price

and read this it is probably similar to the strategy he is going to use to sell his boat http://www.boats.com/boat-content/sell-my-boat-guide/how-to-conduct-a-sea-trial/

good luck and let us Know how it turns out

Re: How to factor engine rebuild for pricing?

Think of rebuilding as repairing . . . It basically puts the boat back in operating condition; i. e., it brings the value back up into the average range. If it were an entirely new engine, one could argue a higher than average price.

Re: How to factor engine rebuild for pricing?

Really all you have to do when considering price is scale the entire thing as Blue Book might do. It's the entire package that counts.

If you look at a pristine, older, used vehicles with low miles and garaged by an older guy that changed the oil every 2,999 miles, and the paint was mint and it was a 'find', it would just push that vehicle into the higher range of that particular vehicle. I think a great condition vehicle would return 10% more.

"Average" condition might fetch 6000. "Excellent" condition might fetch 6600. The engine rebuild might contribute to the rating/condition, but just think about the overall condition. 10% swing is really about how far condition can push it.

Nothing really pushes a given vehicle out of range unless it is some rare exception. If poor condition gets, 5600 and excellent condition gets 6600, then that is the range.

Re: How to factor engine rebuild for pricing?

NADA is a joke for used boat pricing. They're usually WAY WAY below what boats in good operating condition are actually selling for. Plus, this time of year is when boats bring their highest price.

Edit to add: Do a search on iboats for "NADA" and you'll see hundreds of posts from experienced boaters offering that same viewpoint.

Re: How to factor engine rebuild for pricing?

Thanks all for the input. Very helpful. I shot an email to owner today saying I would like to come view the boat and made an initial offer contingent upon "looks as good in real life as in photos" and test drive. My offer was very much NADA-based as well as a quick look at boats.com. I doubt he will be interested but one never knows. I agree he/she is over priced. But I guess that is how the game is played. Hopefully he/she is not watching this discussion.

Re: How to factor engine rebuild for pricing?

I'd say: it depends. A new reman/rebuilt engine is worth SOMETHING in most used boats because you are getting above average condition for the powerplant. Sure, a boat doesn't sell as well (or at all in some cases) with a non-running engine, but would you pay more for the same boat with an engine having 750hours, or 30 hours? Again, it's likely worth something, even if it's an extra $250-500 on a $6K boat. I'd say 10% or less increase in price depending on factors like what was replaced, who did it, receipts, etc.

The other part of "it depends" is related to the boat type itself. If this is an offshore powerboat with two rebuilt SC'd 8.1L engines, you are going to pay more than the guy with 300hrs on the engines. Of course none of this helps out the hours on the outdrive, but still, a rebuilt/reman engine is worth something.

My personal example: I just installed a reman engine last year, new everything that bolts onto the long block (carb/dizzy/wires/coil/flame arrestor/fuel lines/EVERYTHING). You're going to tell me than I can't command an extra couple hundred dollars for that over the same boat with original 1976-vintage equipment? Will I get back the few grand that I put in it? Of course not, it would be insane to think so, but to say I can't ask a few hundred more for having everything new between the doghouse and the gimbal ring is silly. Just my .02.

Re: How to factor engine rebuild for pricing?

tpenfield said:

Think of rebuilding as repairing . . . It basically puts the boat back in operating condition; i. e., it brings the value back up into the average range. If it were an entirely new engine, one could argue a higher than average price.

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Ayuh,.... I Agree with Silly, Jolin, 'n Ted....

A Dead motor in a boat, means the boat is Nothin' but a pile of parts,...
Little to No real Value....

Replace the Dead motor, 'n yer just back to an average boat....

Re: How to factor engine rebuild for pricing?

metriccrescentwrench said:

NADA is a joke for used boat pricing. They're usually WAY WAY below what boats in good operating condition are actually selling for. Plus, this time of year is when boats bring their highest price.

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Metric, that comment can be true or totally false, depending entirely on where you live and what kind of boat you're trying to sell. In many cases, NADA pricing is well ABOVE what you'll actually get.

Re: How to factor engine rebuild for pricing?

JoLin said:

In many cases, NADA pricing is well ABOVE what you'll actually get.

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I'd be interested to see some examples of that. If that's the case it makes NADA pricing even less reliable because you don't know if they're ridiculously low or ridiculously high.

Re: How to factor engine rebuild for pricing?

Maybe we could start an NADA Analysis thread . . .

I have some documentation of my boat search and purchase from about 7 years ago . . . I know that I used NADA as well as BUCnet as price guides.

Perhaps others have some info on their purchases from more recently.

Re: How to factor engine rebuild for pricing?

metriccrescentwrench said:

I'd be interested to see some examples of that. If that's the case it makes NADA pricing even less reliable because you don't know if they're ridiculously low or ridiculously high.

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NADA tends to be pretty unreliable, as it doesn't account for locale, and doesn't represent anywhere near the sales volume that the 'car guide' does. BUT, it's what we have available to get a rough idea of what a given boat might be worth.

You asked for a case in point- here are two:

1. In late 2008 I cut the deal on my 1999 Chris*Craft 240 EC (express cruiser). The boat was in extremely good condition- well above average. NADA value at the time was over $22K. I bought it for $17K - 75% of NADA.

2. My current Four Winns express. NADA price in 'average' condition (which it was in 2010) was approximately $21K. I bought it for $15K. Again, about 75% of NADA value

This is not at all unusual at this time, for this type of boat, in my neck of the woods.

Re: How to factor engine rebuild for pricing?

tpenfield said:

Maybe we could start an NADA Analysis thread . . .

I have some documentation of my boat search and purchase from about 7 years ago . . . I know that I used NADA as well as BUCnet as price guides.

Perhaps others have some info on their purchases from more recently.

Click to expand...

I think that would be even less reliable than NADA, t. That's an even smaller 'database' from which to draw any sort of conclusion. IMO and from what I've seen personally, NADA generally overestimates value in a down market, and underestimates value in an up market. We've been in a down market since 2007.