Carb reassembly/faceplate problem

Hi all!

I've been working on my Johnson QD-18 10 hp, hoping to get it running and tuned. I did the points, coils were ok (previously updated), good spark, did water pump, dumped lower unit and refilled (slightly milky, found no gaskets on drain/fill plugs-maybe...), did carb kit w/ float, putting it all back together, and found a problem.
When I took the carb off and began to disassemble I noted the way the packing nuts/tubes were put on and what springs and washers went where. It was like this:
Bottom (high speed needle): had long packing nut, large spring, large rubber donut/grommet, brass washer, plastic grommet
Top (low speed needle): had short packing nut, smaller spring, plastic collar
While looking at the parts diagrams in my Seloc I saw that the longer packing nut goes on the top needle. I began swapping parts and cannot find a way to get them all together so the faceplate fits inside the shroud correctly. I even checked Fleabay to see if there might be a carb like mine for reference. I can get the parts all together but it seems I either end up with not enough needle stub sticking out to to get the knobs on, or the faceplate goes on way crooked and cannot get the shround to sit down with faceplate in position. I've tried every combo I could think of.
I'm wondering now if Freddy Fingers before me has non-spec parts in there or what.
Can you guys take a look and see what I'm not seeing? Maybe look at another QD-18 for ref?
Pix below show carb w/ needles and packing nuts installed, parts laid out and numbered, and diagram from manual.
(Rubber donut in middle does not show on parts diagram, was installed on long packing nut on lower needle w/ large spring and washer/plastic grommet. I can see where the spring has been chewing away at it.)
Thanks in advance!!!

Re: Carb reassembly/faceplate problem

That top brass locking nut is sticking out pretty far. How many packing washers do you have in back of it? Did your remove the old packing washers?

The top slow speed needle valve screws into a separate aluminum threaded barrel, NOT into the actual carburetor. When the packing washers are removed, you can thread the brass needle valve into that barrel a half dozen threads or so and yank it out of the carburetor. The possibility exists that the previous owner might have put packing washers in back of it where they do not belong?

Explain what portion of the face plate is hitting what.

Re: Carb reassembly/faceplate problem

Wow! Just yank it out?
I did remove the old packing washers and put 2 in each needle. I dont recall seeing any separate "barrel", but I'll go have a look again. What happens is when the parts are all put together the way the diagram shows, the larger spring and the plastic collar on the upper needle, the spring touches nothing and the faceplate has no pressure on it and it flops back into the shroud. I'll go pull the silencer off and get a shot of the bare carb. I do know that my silencer is slightly different than the one shown here, but still has the needle that passes through it.

Re: Carb reassembly/faceplate problem

I just put mine back together last week. I can't say it's correct but it works and the case fits nice to the faceplate.

From motor out I have

Low Speed (upper hole) - 7, a small brass washer, 3, 9
High speed - 1, 2, 8, 4 The #2 washer holds the rubber inside the face plate otherwise mine falls out into the large spring.
If your #2 is brass than it would go on the low speed and your missing a larger fiber wash.

I don't have #5 and used a choke know from a different motor. My top brass locking nut sits about 5/8" out from the air box.

Re: Carb reassembly/faceplate problem

Thanks Joe. Ok, went and looked. Also found a little better parts diagram here:
http://www.marineengine.com/parts/v...ntage-evinrude-johnson/377020/37702000001.htm
I see what you call a barrel. I took the packing washers out and ran the nut in to make sure that bushing is seated. Then reinstalled. I do not understand what #76 does in that diagram. Spring #80 is large enough to slip over the packing nut. Is the washer supposed to prevent that? And if so is it supposed to be at the outer end beyond the hex shaped collar? Otherwise the spring would just push against the face of the silencer, which it has not been doing (no marks). But then the lower spring is too short to even reach the faceplate.
I think I need someone with one of these things to take a look at theirs. I don't even know if these parts are the right ones for this carb. I wonder if the springs are the wrong ones. Everything else seems to match. Back to the drawing board....

Re: Carb reassembly/faceplate problem

Thanks Os, I'll try that and see what happens. Think I'm definitely missing a washer, and I don't know what my #5 is??????

Re: Carb reassembly/faceplate problem

5 should be #23 on sheet 2 of the QD19 drawing. Your choke knob fits in it.

I tried it per the drawing and had issues with the my low speed (upper) seating snug in the hole with the plate and knob on. I flipped it around a little so it worked for me.

Re: Carb reassembly/faceplate problem

Nope. I got it back together and stuff just aint right. I dont know what the problem is. Maybe someone with one of these will swim by and be able to figure it out.
With all parts together I have about 3/4 inch of top needle sticking out past the packing nut to get a washer, spring, sleeve, faceplate, and adjusting knob onto. The locking screw for the knob ends up all the way in the back of the knob, barely grabbing anything.
I'm just afraid it's gonna fly apart when running and parts go everywhere.
Thanks for trying to help guys. Dont know where else to go.

Re: Carb reassembly/faceplate problem

Hi Mark J. I used to have a QD-22. This link may help you get the carb put back together properly. Hang in there. You've almost got it.

http://www.sschapterpsa.com/ramblings/johnson_QD.htm

http://www.outboard-boat-motor-repa...hnson 5.5 HP 1954-1964 Carburetor Tune-UP.htm

Re: Carb reassembly/faceplate problem

That spring in the 1st diagram (#1 Spring) is the wrong spring.

Re: Carb reassembly/faceplate problem

I have a couple QD18s, 1 of which Im actually rebuilding the carb on right now. I could go down and reassemble it if you are still stuck and take a pic. You have some assembled wrong here, can you take a pic of your carb assembled etc... so we can see what you are missing?

Re: Carb reassembly/faceplate problem

Just for reference, in the pix below,

my #1 is #80
my #2 is #88
my #3 is #89
my #7 is #87
my #8 is #90
I do not have a #76
My #5 is not shown on diagram. I have it on the lower needle up against the packing nut with a washer added between it and the spring. Without #5 there is no spring tension on the faceplate.
I assume #76 is supposed to go over the upper needle against the packing nut. I added a washer here, otherwise the spring has nothing to rest against. But it appears #76 is supposed to go over the packing nut, to rest against what ???
My #6 is shown in a different diagram with faceplate.

Re: Carb reassembly/faceplate problem

This is all you should have

Re: Carb reassembly/faceplate problem

Great pic HT. That being said I could not get spring tension to my face plate installing the low speed (upper) needle like that. I have basically reversed the spring and fittings, not the needles and I have good tension on the face plate and the cowl fits great.

Re: Carb reassembly/faceplate problem

Ok, great pic HT. And to KFA- that second link is so close to mine, but the intake silencer is different and I cant really see where the washer goes. It show the thing half taken apart: I need to see it together. (but I saved both links...good info!! Thanks much!!)

HT, your pic shows the parts I have. Here's my question:
The top needle, the packing nut has a washer on it. I need to know what that washer seats against. I dont see how I could have that on mine. It would prevent the nut from slipping through the hole in the silencer. The washer obviously sits between the silencer and the hex on the packing nut. Does it just sit against th eface of the silencer? There is no mark where there ever was one. But that would let loosen the spring tension up some.There's my problem.
Below shows how I managed to get mine together. Its close. I think if I had the washer in the right spot on the top needle I could get the spring tension right to let the faceplate seat properly. Could you tell me where the washer sits on the packing nut with relation to the faceplate?
I know is a pain to take and post pix...I appreciate everyones help here!

Re: Carb reassembly/faceplate problem

On your high speed needle, take that rubber grommet out of there, along with that red/bronze looking washer? Im not sure what that is there for. The only washer that should be there is the small brass one that is the same OD as the rubber grommet that fits into the faceplate which goes on last.

ON your low speed, again you have an incorrect washer there. The spring sits against the plastic washer which sits against the silencer. It goes OVER the packing nut. Install everything AFTER the silencer is installed.

Re: Carb reassembly/faceplate problem

Thanks HT! That's what I needed to know. Apparently I have the wrong spring(s). What I couldn't figure out what the washer on the low speed nut rested against. It just rests against the silencer. The red/bronze things are copper washers I had (didn't have any brass on hand). I think I got it sorted out. Went and got gas to try to barrel run it and found the tank has a pinhole at a dent in the bottom. Didnt see that coming. The tank will hold air pressure, and the primer will pressurize the fuel side of the engine connector, but liquid leaks on the bottom of the tank. "Dead in the Water" for now. I was hoping to be able to get it running as is before making any mods. I still have the wooden transom boards out of the boat, and am having problems with the registration. Just one more layer on the sandwich! As I get older the hurdles get higher. Soooooo...I'll be looking for a tank I guess.

Thanks for the help though, to all you guys!!!