New guy, 87 Islander, where do I stop?

Was hoping someone could point me in the right direction on what to do next with my resto project.
Transom, gunnels and floor are shot. Replaced the transom about ten years ago and it rotted already. When I did it years ago I should have pulled out the water logged flotation. Didnt know then so here we go again. Got the motor, all controls, the splashwell and all accesories out and the transom ready to come out. Got the gunnels, floor and all the water logged foam out and was wondering if the bulkhead? should come out, the part seperating the cockpit from the cabin. There seams to be no damage to any wood compartments or flooring in there. If I took it out that would expose the whole bottom of the boat tho.
My questions are,
1 Do I take out the bulkhead and the rest of the foam?
2 Do I put in new expanding foam? It seems that I must. Taking the old stuff out even water logged this is strong stuff and perfectly molded to the bottom of the boat around the stringers and up the sides. This stuff was definately a structural part of the boat. No way the aluminum was flexing much with this stuff in there.
3 Should I add any new structural elements to the boat bottom. New stringers, bracing, extra supports, etc.?
4 How about closing in the outboard cut out in the transom, adding a jackplate and losing the splashwell? Anybody seen that done on one of these boats?

Any help would be appreciated. This seems to be the site to be at for Starcraft owners, almost like a cult following. Lots of great information.
Tried to send pictures but I couldnt do it. Said my files where too large, just trying to send six pictures.

Re: New guy, 87 Islander, where do I stop?

Hey 87, welcome to iboats! We'd love to see some shots of your rig plus it would certainly help with our recommendations. Check out Photobucket.com, that's what most of us use for posting. I'm betting you'll want it all to come out and rebuilt correctly. Foam isn't typically structural in our rigs and putting more structure in depends on your goals, materials and build process.

So, let's see what ya got and go from there!

Glad you found us man!

Re: New guy, 87 Islander, where do I stop?

Welcome! And get that photobucket action going so we can see this beast.

Re: New guy, 87 Islander, where do I stop?

Ok. I think I have the pictures in this link below. Still plugging away at the foam residue and paint removal. Think I have solved the mystery of where the water was coming in from. Found a broken rivet on the starboard side up by the front roller. Also found where water was coming in thru a hole drilled for antenna wire. Any direction or comments feel free.
http://s1149.photobucket.com/albums/o589/87islander/

Re: New guy, 87 Islander, where do I stop?

She is a great looking Islander!!

Re: New guy, 87 Islander, where do I stop?

Welcome to the drydock,

That is one nice looking rig...

I am mostly just coming aboard to watch, learn and cheer...Don't really know that much 'bout these Starcrafts, 'cept that they are some real fine boats...

You have already scored some of the biggest hitters here when it comes to the Starcrafts, so enjoy bringing it back to like new condition
and Have Fun!

Oh yeah, and don't freak out when its time to figure out where to put the batteries...Jas has all the angles covered on that one...[inside joke]

Best regards,
GT1M

Re: New guy, 87 Islander, where do I stop?

Ooh.. Ooh.. Jason, show the man how you replaced the foam. Not busting you bro, I'm going to do exactly the same thing.

Re: New guy, 87 Islander, where do I stop?

Worked on the boat for a few hours this weekend. Removed the rest of the little pieces of foam that where stuck to the hull everywhere. Wire brushed around all of the rivets getting ready for Gluvit on the rivets. Only some foam residue left on the hull. Tried wire brushing it all off but it was time consuming. I think I am going to leave whats left, cant see that it will hurt anything.
Took all of the hardware from the old bimini top off of the topsides of the boat. Removed the brackets for the t top which I took off to get the boat into the garage. Don?t know if that is going back on but that is another project. When I took off all of the hardware and carpet that was covering the top sides I found a lot of holes drilled out of my top sides. Think I will just patch them with fiberglass sand and paint with some kind of non skid paint. Thought about using aluminum diamond plate to cover them or teak. The teak would look nice but it is a lot of maintenance and just one more thing to get water behind.
Inspected the fuel tank. No leaks, everything looked good. Im sure that the foam under the bottom of the tank is waterlogged but I don?t see where it is going to hurt anything, nothing down there but the tank. Install a new sending unit, a new vent exterior fitting and a new fuel inlet exterior cap, a new fuel line going to the motor and this should be good to go.
Decided that the foam is going back in. Before that goes in I need to make a decision about re in forcing the stringers?(not sure if that is the right term) that are on either side of the keel. They are just a piece of aluminum riveted to the bottom of the hull that has a 1 ?? 90 at the top. It is pretty flimsy; you can move it easily with your hand. In the section of the hull where the foam is you cant even budge it. Thought about putting lvl lumber in these stringers which run from the transom to the bulkhead. Don?t know if this is a good idea or not. Never had any problems with the boat the way it is now structurally but I do get into some decent chop sometimes and there is a pretty hairy rip around a lighthouse in Montauk that I would sure like to go to in this boat someday.
I have to figure out what I am going to do with the new transom. The question is whether or not to remove the splashwell permanently from the boat. This would mean welding in a new piece of aluminum where the cut out for the outboard is, fabricating some brackets to tie the port and starboard sides into the transom and adding a jackplate. I would have to fabricate other brackets for the transom to the stringer, this seems to be where all of the stress from the outboard is transferred to the hull. If I did lose the splashwell though I could beef up the transom to 2 ?? or more though. If I went with the splashwell it would have to stay the stock 1 ?? as this is what the splashwell is made for. I would also have to move the batteries and the oil injection tank, currently there are compartments in the splashwell for these items. I could transfer them to the new port and starboard front seating/storage areas. I don?t know this seems like a lot of extra work, it would be nice to have that extra space in the back of the boat though. And those jackplates look cool, would really clean up the lines in the back of the boat. The splashwell makes it look pretty chunky back there, but it does tie in the rear of the boat and house my batteries and oil tank. Hmmmm. Need direction, could do some more paint prep, (sanding) but after that I am pretty much at a standstill till I make some decisions.
New photos are in the link below.
http://s1149.photobucket.com/albums/o589/87islander/

Re: New guy, 87 Islander, where do I stop?

On your stringers - once the deck is riveted in place they end up nice and solid. One of the things I did was sink an extra rivet into where it attaches to the rib. That firmed it up nicely.

On foam - we have had lots of debate around here regarding pour in foam. It has a huge advantage by really locking everything down and providing extra support for the deck. It also had great sound deadening qualities. Disadvantage? No drainage. When water gets in, it gets trapped and sits. Many/most go with blue/pink foam and/or noodles vs. the pour in for this reason.

On your splashwell - Another thing we talk a lot about around here. They are big and sure eat up a lot of real estate! So are you thinking that you'd build your transom to full height? That would account for the rogue wave coming over the stern. The other thing it does is provide a good amount of structure for the whole back end of your rig. If you take it out I'm thinking you'll want to add knee braces or similar to make up for that lost structure. It would be awesome to gain that space though!

Cheers!

Re: New guy, 87 Islander, where do I stop?

Great looking Islander you have, she will be an awsome boat.
Glen

Re: New guy, 87 Islander, where do I stop?

Nice boat you have there,

On the foam you can use a pressure washer to get the little pieces out, makes a mess but works well. i used pink foam from home depot, that seems to have worked pretty well.

For the holes on the tops i used marine tex to fill them, works great and sands down fantastic, may save you some time there.

Regarding your splash well, i'd say have a go at removing it, i'm going to be doing the same thing on my chieftain this summer, so i'll be very interested how you do yours.

Great boat and looking forward to following your work

Tim

Re: New guy, 87 Islander, where do I stop?

Hey thanks for the input, really appreciate it. Do you know of any threads you could send me of someone replacing the splashwell, filling in the outboard cut out bringing the transom to full height and or adding a jackplate for the motor? Tried looking here but always just reading, reading, reading about other restos. The information is priceless, I am real glad I found this site. Also do you know what kind of rivets I should use and where I can get a good rivet gun? Thanks.

Re: New guy, 87 Islander, where do I stop?

After spending a week researching removing the splashwell and putting the outboard on a bracket the jury is in and the spalshwell is staying. Reasons being that the cost of the bracket and the jackplate, around $1200, doesnt seem worth the extra space. With the splashwell removed because of the angle of the transom, I would still need to make a top side for the stern that was aprox. 10" wide.
The splashwell is only 18" wide. So I was only gaining 8". Not worth it to me. Plus the bracket and jackplate would extend this boat almost 36", didnt like that either. So we are going to rebuild her stock.
As far as the stringers go I think they are going to stay stock also. Thought about putting lvl's inside of them(laminated veneer lumber), just like a carpenter always trying to use wood! Then thought I would just have some aluminum bent up and rivet that to the existing stringer, then thought of adding another between the existing and the side, then scrapped the idea all together. I would have to remove the tank and the bulkehead to tie properly into the existing stringers and to get them to the bow of the boat. Just didnt seem worth it. The boat has lasted 25 years the way it is, hopefully it will last another 25 years. So retro from here will consist of replacing the stock transom, 1 1/2" thick, coat in epoxy and re install. 1/2" plywood for decks, encapsulated in fiberglass, Gluvit all exposed rivets, new expanding foam, a couple of new braces for transom, new gunnels made from 1/2" pvc sheets, new seating and storage areas port and starboard.
Questions I have if anyone can answer:
1) What kind of epoxy for transom?
2) Epoxy or fiberglass deck?, what kind?
3) What kind of aluminum for brackets? (read on here about aluminum blended with copper) a real no no I guess.
4) What kind of rivets? (same thing, dont want copper blended ones)
Im sure I have some other questions, cant think of them now. Will send out pictures of this weekends progress.

Re: New guy, 87 Islander, where do I stop?

Just thought of another question.
What kind of foam should go back in. I know it is two part expanding foam but what kind, 2lb?, 4lb? I know what the differences are but could someone tell me what Starcraft used originally?, which type?

Re: New guy, 87 Islander, where do I stop?

I'd like to pop in and ask a question of the guys who are tinners, shouldn't he (87islander) check for rivet leaks before applying the coating over the rivets? Maybe I missed it in one of the postings but I've read a number of other restor tinny projects where they tested for rivet leaks before moving forward. If I'm off base.....skip that I even posted this.

Good luck with your project...I'll be watching your reports.

Re: New guy, 87 Islander, where do I stop?

Thats a valid point River Lizard. I have not done a water test. The hull looks like it is in very good shape, it is still the original bottom paint and I dont plan on painting the bottom of the hull during this resto. That being said I did find one rivet that was missing(I found it several years ago and new that it was leaking) and plan on using a stainless steel nut and bolt with 3m 5200 to fix it. Also not all of the rivets are exposed. I still have the bulkhead in and the bow is not open. What is exposed again looks good. Just using the Gluvit as a preventative measure, it cant hurt.

Re: New guy, 87 Islander, where do I stop?

That being said I did find one rivet that was missing(I found it several years ago and new that it was leaking) and plan on using a stainless steel nut and bolt with 3m 5200 to fix it. Also not all of the rivets are exposed.

Click to expand...

Ayuh,.... I'd recommend usin' solid aluminum closed end blind pop-rivets for stuff like that...

Google will bring up many options....

The 5200 is optional, yer choice...