2001 Merc 200 EFI-Need help diagnosing electrical/running issue

I've been reading these posts for a while now, and it seems like there are a lot of very knowledgeable people here...so this is my first post asking for help.

First-Setup: 2001 Mercury 200 EFI, oil injection removed-using premix 50:1.

Second-Problem: Starts on first turn every time. Idle out of boat ramp, then run WOT-5800 RPM for 20-30 miles. Get to my fishing spot, idle around for a bit to zero in on the fish, shut the motor down and fish for a couple of hours. When I'm ready to leave, motor starts right up, but will not run above 2800 RPM. I've limped in like this for a couple of miles, and it has kicked back to all cylinders and I've been able to run home WOT again. I've also limped for a little while, then shut motor off for a second, started back up, and been able to run back WOT. At no time have I gotten an alarm, and motor has not overheated.

Third-What has been done already: Replaced base gasket and exhaust plate gasket(both were leaking), replaced thermostats and temp sending units. Checked all fuel lines for leaks, fuel is fresh, fuel/water seperator is new. Both batteries and switch are new within the past year.

So....from what I've been reading, I could be looking at anything from a bad ground wire, a bad stator...or anything in between.

Where to start?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Re: 2001 Merc 200 EFI-Need help diagnosing electrical/running issue

First you have to make it fail,then test. Take a timing light with you and when it fails check spark on all the cylinders as it sounds like its dropping a bank of cylinders. If it is dropping a bank its the stator. Also is your charging voltage high? if its over 14.8v check the condition of the connectors on the rect/regulators and battery connections.

Re: 2001 Merc 200 EFI-Need help diagnosing electrical/running issue

Thanks for the input. I stopped by the mechanic's shop today...he has been running it in the tank and cannot get it to replicate. I am going to run it tomorrow to try to get it to fail again.

When he and I were looking at the motor, we found a red wire from the stator to the powerpack, tucked behind a metal plate. At the bullet connector, the wire was bare...possibly shorting? Fixed the connection, and sealed all of the others since we were into it.

I was thinking, would it be harmful to start the motor and ground that wire to see if that is the cause of the problem before taking the boat out?

Just a thought. Again, thank you for the input, and any help is greatly appreciated.

Re: 2001 Merc 200 EFI-Need help diagnosing electrical/running issue

UPDATE: Friday Feb 17th

Took it out on an 8 mile, hard run-ran perfect. Idled into dock, shut it down and let it sit for 45 minutes. Started it back up, and was running rough, having a hard time idling...stalling at idle. Same symptoms as before...so I was able to re-create the failure.

Checked all cylinders with timing light, all were firing. Checked timing...slightly out, but not much-adjusted to spec. Charging was right at 13.5-14V. Checked cylinder head temp with laser, starboard slightly hotter than port head, but not by much between 125-155 F. No alarms...

Shut it down, restarted about 10 minutes later...purred like a kitten. Made the 8 mile run back....as I approached the dock, she bogged down again, not able to get above 2800 RPM...no alarms.

Not sure where to go from here?

Any suggestions?

Re: 2001 Merc 200 EFI-Need help diagnosing electrical/running issue

Run to Autozone and rent a fuel pressure tester and check the fuel pressure when it fails as regulator could be sticking open and calling pressure to drop on injectors or the fuel pump could be going bad.

Re: 2001 Merc 200 EFI-Need help diagnosing electrical/running issue

Update: Saturday February 18th

I purchased a fuel pressure tester...fairly inexpensive...about $25. The only schrader valve that I have found is on the port side of the engine on the top of the Emmisions Control...I am assuming this is where to hook up the guage?

I also decided to check/change the fuel/water seperator and double check the fuel quality. Before I took off the fuel filter, I noticed that there is what appears to be a sensor on the starboard side of the motor, in what I assume is the intake manifold (sorry, still feeling my way around outboard motors). It has two light tan leads coming out of it with bullet connectors that attach to dark brown wires. One of the connectors was not connected. I have several connections on this motor that seem to be just "hanging out"...but it seems that these both should be connected? Any idea of what this sensor could be, and if both wires should be connected?

Anyway, going to put the new filter on tomorrow, and the fuel was clean...no water, no sediment. May sea trial tomorrow or Monday to check the fuel pressure.

Re: 2001 Merc 200 EFI-Need help diagnosing electrical/running issue

Friday March 9: Filter is done, the sensor was air intake temp. Changed plugs. Ran it again, fuel pressure fine, but same symptoms. Going to take a sea trial with the mechanic on Monday. I am convinced that the stator is bad, and it takes a "heat soak" to make it fail. He is going to bring timing light and DVA to check it when it fails.

Re: 2001 Merc 200 EFI-Need help diagnosing electrical/running issue

Keep us posted to the results. I have the EXACT same problem and symptoms on my 1996 Mariner 200 EFI. These Merc motors are apparently notorious for going through stators on a regular basis. I have my CDI replacement but cannot get the stubborn flywheel off to replace. I had the same exact issue with my previous boat, Merc motor and I replaced the stator and it fixed the problem entirely.

Did motor initially start bogging down at RPMs below 4000? Like mine, under 4k was the issue but if I could creep the boat on pad once it it 4k the other bank of cylinders would kick in and it was launch forward like i hit it with a 100hp shot of nitrous! This was the telltale that convinced me it was the stator- once the rpm range hit the transitional point of the low speed to high speed stator windings the problem went away. The low speed winding is breaking down. eventually you will get to the point where the high speed starts going bad....just like me! Do yourself a favor and get it replaced as it sounds like you are running a sea vessel and it would be no fun limping home at 3 knots for 30 miles! yikes! Let me know the outcome of your sea trial! Thanks!

Louis

Re: 2001 Merc 200 EFI-Need help diagnosing electrical/running issue

Monday March 12: Took her out and ran hard this morning. Picked mechanic up at the dock and ran around Boca Ciega bay for about 45 minutes. Several times idling/shutting down, and finally it failed. Pulled the cowl off, and found the port bank down. Within a minute, all cylinders were firing. Our hypothesis- once the cover was off, the latent heat escaped, stator cooled, and all cylinders began firing again. I'm thinking that this is what happened on the previous test, because we had the cowl off for a while before hooking up the timing light. He is going to test it and swap it out if it is out of spec, but we are pretty confident that this is our problem.

Re: 2001 Merc 200 EFI-Need help diagnosing electrical/running issue

Atleast you are getting the ghost cornered! There is nothing worse than this intermittent problem as it is unpredictable as to when it will act up. I fished at my 120 acre local lake on Saturday and it only acted up once. I fished a 2 day tournament at a 10,000 acre lake and it acted up all day after the first 10 min run WOT to our first fishing spot. I think the extended head at higher rpms is where the heat buildup takes place and really breaks it down. Going with a CDI stator in my understanding is best as it has been slightly modified by ignition EXPERTS to dissipate heat more rapidly. These 40 amp stators run hot as is....its too bad this outboards don't have an air cooling type system to help the engine cooling.

The source of the problem is usually a motor running hotter than normal, so while you are at it you may want to remove and test your T-stats to ensure they are opening at the proper temperature. Just a thought for precautionary measure for your new stator which Im sure they mechanic will find is faulty.

Best of luck, and keep us posted on the final result

Re: 2001 Merc 200 EFI-Need help diagnosing electrical/running issue

veritek_dragger said:

Atleast you are getting the ghost cornered! There is nothing worse than this intermittent problem as it is unpredictable as to when it will act up. I fished at my 120 acre local lake on Saturday and it only acted up once. I fished a 2 day tournament at a 10,000 acre lake and it acted up all day after the first 10 min run WOT to our first fishing spot. I think the extended head at higher rpms is where the heat buildup takes place and really breaks it down. Going with a CDI stator in my understanding is best as it has been slightly modified by ignition EXPERTS to dissipate heat more rapidly. These 40 amp stators run hot as is....its too bad this outboards don't have an air cooling type system to help the engine cooling.

The source of the problem is usually a motor running hotter than normal, so while you are at it you may want to remove and test your T-stats to ensure they are opening at the proper temperature. Just a thought for precautionary measure for your new stator which Im sure they mechanic will find is faulty.

Best of luck, and keep us posted on the final result

Click to expand...

The Ghost...yes. I had to keep reassuring him that I wasn't crazy, and it really does fail each time I go out. It took almost an hour to make it finally happen.

As for the motor running hot...we put in new T-stats, and heat sensors a little while back. Thought it may be an overheat problem, so took the stats out...but problem persisted. Currently, the port heads run about 125-155F, but the starboard runs 160-175...thinking either poppet or the tube to the telltale....but that issue is for another day(and possibly another thread here), not hot enough to create any more problems. This may be a contributing factor though.

I see this as an overall design issue. The cowl has air intake vents, but they are ported to the bottom. Heat rises, so there is no place for it to escape. The stator is tucked under the flywheel, on top of a hot motor, surrounded by hot air....

Fortunately...mechanic has a barely used CDI stator from another motor that he will swap out, so I won't get hit with the $300 for the part....hopefully.

I will update the thread as I get through this, hopefully it will help someone with similar issues.

I swear, sometimes a boat is like having shared custody of a kid. My mechanic has it all week, but I only get it on weekends.

Re: 2001 Merc 200 EFI-Need help diagnosing electrical/running issue

Thursday March 14: Mechanic decided to trouble shoot the temp issue before doing stator. The stator that he had is not the right part for my motor, so figured go the cheap route before dropping hundreds into parts. He ran independent lines to the telltale from each head. The starboard head, which he actually said was running closer to 200-205F instantly dropped in temp to about 170 at idle. Decided to run it and try to make it fail again to see if the heat was the factor that was breaking down the stator. Unfortunately, After a couple of minutes at high RPM, I would get an overheat alarm. I would pull back to idle out of channel, and she would cool down and alarm would stop.

Is it possible that by diverting the tubes to let them flow independently, I have too much water moving too fast through the block, and therefore not enough heat transfer to the water?

Could it be the poppet, since it is a high RPM overheat, but once at idle it cools rapidly?

Re: 2001 Merc 200 EFI-Need help diagnosing electrical/running issue

bramous said:

Thursday March 14: Mechanic decided to trouble shoot the temp issue before doing stator. The stator that he had is not the right part for my motor, so figured go the cheap route before dropping hundreds into parts. He ran independent lines to the telltale from each head. The starboard head, which he actually said was running closer to 200-205F instantly dropped in temp to about 170 at idle. Decided to run it and try to make it fail again to see if the heat was the factor that was breaking down the stator. Unfortunately, After a couple of minutes at high RPM, I would get an overheat alarm. I would pull back to idle out of channel, and she would cool down and alarm would stop.

Is it possible that by diverting the tubes to let them flow independently, I have too much water moving too fast through the block, and therefore not enough heat transfer to the water?

Could it be the poppet, since it is a high RPM overheat, but once at idle it cools rapidly?

Click to expand...

It could very well be the poppet valve. This allows water pressure to build in your cooling system to build without forward motion so the water can reach the upper cylinder area of the block before opening for normal operation. A weak valve won't allow for cooling water to reach the upper cylinders which btw are right under your trigger and stator. taking out the t-stats would only allow the cooling system to run even cooler. This in no way would make your motor run hotter. This could be the reason why your stator may have went out, however 2 relief hoses could also be relieving too much pressure on the spefically designed cooling system that could lead to upper cylinder heat up. Not an expert, but just logical thinking. Either way Im certain its your stator that is bad. You can service your poppet valve yourself, there is a video on youtube to help....

Re: 2001 Merc 200 EFI-Need help diagnosing electrical/running issue

Inspect the spark plugs and piston domes for 'steam cleaning', also do a compression test looking for a slightly lower reading on the 'hotter' side of the motor. A slight head gasket leak may operate fine until cyl pressure at high load, large throttle openings, starts leaking enough combustion gases into the cooling system displacing water and the temp rises.

The radical power loss and limited RPM may be a separate issue, DVA testing of the ignition system must be done, once while the motor is cold, then again when the condition occurs to show any change in stator output.

NEVER ASSUME any electrical problem and start changing expensive parts without PROVING the fault as there is NO RETURN on electrical parts.

Re: 2001 Merc 200 EFI-Need help diagnosing electrical/running issue

Saturday March 24th: SO....the saga continues. Pulled plugs, nothing out of the ordinary there. We are quite certain that either the trigger, or more likely the stator is going (since I am dropping the starboard bank of cylinders, not the port side like I originally posted). We have theorized, that the overheating starboard bank is creating the latent heat soak that is breaking down the stator, so we are working to eliminate that problem before going forward with the electrical problem. Boat will run on all six until it gets hot...then the problems start. EPIC Failure on the water today...multiple overheats and bank of cylinders going down.

So, to change gears a little...I need to focus on why my starboard bank of cylinders is at times running upwards of 200+ F, when port cylinders are running 125-150F.

Already we have:

Changed/removed T-stats. Neither helped the overheating issue
New Water Pump
New Impeller
New Base Gasket
New Exhaust plate gasket
Re-configured water lines to tell tale, and switched back to original set up
Replaced poppet valve
Compression test showed even compression on all 6

I read somewhere that there are two different types of exhaust plate gaskets...one with smaller holes, I'm not too sure or familiar here. Anybody have a clue about these different gaskets? As I think back, I never had an overheat alarm until the gasket was changed...maybe I'm just pulling at strings here.

I'm about to bite the bullet and spend mucho $$ and take it to merc if we can't figure this darn thing out.

As always, any input is much appreciated.

-Bill

Re: 2001 Merc 200 EFI-Need help diagnosing electrical/running issue

Water flow is everything to cooling.

Has the water pump impeller EVER lost a vane? Was it found and removed?

Have you hit a rotted log and piece of it go thru the pump and gotten lodged in the cyl block?

Even a SLIGHT head gasket leak will cause small temp increase once at WOT when cyl pressure is at its greatest.

ANY of the above could be a problem, you are going to have to start checking the more likely ones first, and keep on until you find the cause.

Re: 2001 Merc 200 EFI-Need help diagnosing electrical/running issue

CharlieB said:

Water flow is everything to cooling.

Has the water pump impeller EVER lost a vane? Was it found and removed?

Have you hit a rotted log and piece of it go thru the pump and gotten lodged in the cyl block?

Even a SLIGHT head gasket leak will cause small temp increase once at WOT when cyl pressure is at its greatest.

ANY of the above could be a problem, you are going to have to start checking the more likely ones first, and keep on until you find the cause.

Click to expand...

I can't be 100% certain regarding the obstruction in the block...I purchased the motor used this past winter. When the impeller was changed, there was no sign of damage, just wear.

What I can say for certain: The first couple of times that I took the boat out after rigging the motor, I had the issue of dropping banks of cylinders, but never an overheat. At that time, I did not have a temp guage hooked up, so I'm not sure of what the exact running temps were....just never an overheat alarm.

When trouble shooting the stator/dropping cylinder issue, we noticed a small leak in the base gasket spraying water into the bottom cowl. Knowing that this needed attention, I decided to have the mechanic replace it. While he had the powerhead off, it made sense to replace the exhaust plate gasket as well.

Since then, I have had various types of overheat issues...that is why my question regarding the two different types of gaskets. From my understanding, using the wrong one can inhibit the exhaust flow, and heat up the cylinders. I am fairly certain, however, that the overheating all begain with the replacement of this gasket.

It slipped my mind in my last post, but the mechanic did indeed remove the head cover and inspect both the cylinders and the water jacket for signs of obstruction, and found none. In doing so, he replaced the head gasket on the starboard bank.

I have a basic understanding of the cooling system, and like to have faith in my mechanic.....but, from reading a lot I have to wonder if this problem may be the result of a mistake....one that will cost me about $600+ at a Merc dealer to correct.

-Bill

Re: 2001 Merc 200 EFI-Need help diagnosing electrical/running issue

Well....still chasing my tail on this one. I changed out the T-Stats again. The old ones were 120 degree and opened outward from the block. The marine parts store told me that this motor calls for 143 degree stats, that open in towards the block. When I put them in, running on the hose, both banks are heating pretty evenly, holding a steady 155-165 reading with an IR thermometer on the water jacket cover. I'm going to get her in the water in the next day or so and see if this was my problem all along. Then....we'll see about the stator.

Re: 2001 Merc 200 EFI-Need help diagnosing electrical/running issue

Well, took her for a run today. Idled out and ran about 10 miles. Took it down and idled around in the bay for about 30 minutes or so. No overheats, but consistently running about 170-175 on the guage. Ran back towards home, and shut it down for about 20 minutes while floating outside of the channel. When I started back up, stator failure....only running on one bank of cylinders.

So...when I changed out the stats, I noticed quite a bit of salt residue. I was thinking about running salt away to get it out, and possibly drop the temp a little. Then try again, same conditions and see if the stator fails again.

Just trying to fix one thing at a time so that I dont end up putting in a new stator and have it broken down by the latent heat from the motor.

Any opinions? All input is greatly appreciated.

Re: 2001 Merc 200 EFI-Need help diagnosing electrical/running issue

Well, salt away didn't improve the situation, so I sprung to have a different mechanic come out and assess the situation. As it turns out, the water tube was broken off at the top, and not supplying sufficient water to the motor. Put a hose directly on the tube, and found no obstructions, and block temp ran at 115-120. He told me that the powerhead would have to be lifted, powerhead and adapter plate gasket replaced, and new water tube installed....approx $1200. First, though, he said to try something else....any opinions on this?

Bought a new 2 foot piece of 1/2 inch copper pipe. Cleaned upper grommet with acetone soaked rag attached to a long piece of 1/2 inch pvc pipe. Put a nice bead of ultra black permatex around top of new copper, inserted into upper grommet. Going to let it cure overnight, and bolt lower unit back on, then test tomorrow.

I know that my posts are kind of all over the place for trouble shooting, but one thing I have found by searching this site is that posters seem to not frequently post their solutions. I hope that either someone else had had this type of issue, or if it works for me, then my posts can help someone in the future.

As always, any input or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Bill