Salties, how do you protect against lightening?

Bubba1235

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Was talking with a friend about being on the local lake with lightening coming and my answer was get off the water as fast as possible. :D He asked what do boaters do when they are in big water, say the great lakes or the ocean and I had to say I didn't know. So help me out here, is there a lighenting protection system for boats? Does it protect all the electronics on the boat? Anyone actualy have a lightening strike to know if it really works? Just curious...
 

cyclops2

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Re: Salties, how do you protect against lightening?

Some golfers have been struck 2 X and are still playing golf. Lightning dangerous ? Maybe. A sailboat with loads of SS wires running up to the top of the mast is a prime target. Carbon fiber mast just made it more attractive in a storm.

There is a simple Copper conductor spike mounted above the mast top. It has a heavy Copper wire running straight down thru the hull to a LARGE THICK Copper plate on the outside of the hull. Right next to the keel. The plate in theory will provide a large area for the current to find a way thru the water to the bottom of the lake or ocean, under the boat.

Sometimes the lightning electrons get crowded on that wire & start jumping off of it anywhere they want to. If they do jump around, a carbon hole can result in plastic boats.

With lightning they are NO positive protections.
Realize this. By putting a Copper spike & wire you are... ATTRACTING....more lightning from farther distances. All the other boaters around you are being more protected by you. :)
 

Scott Danforth

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Re: Salties, how do you protect against lightening?

the only way to protect against lightning is insurance. Boss's boat was hit in fall of 2008 - fried everything with an electron running thru it, including his shore-power station. Insurance took care of it.
 

dingbat

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Re: Salties, how do you protect against lightening?

When your 30-60 miles ofshore there is no getting back to shore ASAP. At that point, your radar becomes your best freind. Most thunder storms are pretty compact so picking up and running clear of the storm is your best defense.
 

cyclops2

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Re: Salties, how do you protect against lightening?

I can suggest a POOR MAN radar. A Boat Captain I know has a hand held something that he can program the ACTUAL, instantanious occuring weather all around him for several miles. Neat as HELL. Watched him motor us around storm cells & the rain. Several years ago.

Anybody know what service he was watching ?
 

Bondo

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Re: Salties, how do you protect against lightening?

Ayuh,... So far, I've placed my bet on surviving a strike in the Faraday Cage Effect....
(explained in Ziggy's link)

I've got a tinboat, with a full semi-ridged Bimini I built outa aluminum tubin',....
I'm completely surrounded by metal, hopefully enough of it,.....
I've been out in some Nasty blows, 'n seen lightening, but not been struck....
 

cyclops2

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Re: Salties, how do you protect against lightening?

I am a Chicken in the Aluminum 16'. I race to & anchor or tie up under a 6' high steel & concrete small car bridge.

In open water. I drop both anchors & lay down on the bottom of the hull.
 

Mel Taylor

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Re: Salties, how do you protect against lightening?

I do all my fishing and boating in New Mexico and in the state of Sonora in Mexico. In either place if I make a run for the bank and succeed in getting there before lightning starts striking, I'm going to be the tallest thing on a very bare bank. Or, if there is any plant life on the bank, at best about the same height as the tallest objects there. In other words as tall as, or taller than, the mesquite bushes, creosote bushes, and other brush around me.

So, the question in my mind is whether I'm better off staying in my 14' open tinnie or getting out of the boat to stand exposed on the bank. Enquiring minds want to know.
 

cyclops2

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Re: Salties, how do you protect against lightening?

Mel

Have a Armadillo meet you at the waters edge with a door on his burrow enterance. :)

Lay down on the ground. Become as low as possible. That is your best chance anywhere.
 

roscoe

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Re: Salties, how do you protect against lightening?

Some golfers have been struck 2 X and are still playing golf. Lightning dangerous ? Maybe. A sailboat with loads of SS wires running up to the top of the mast is a prime target. Carbon fiber mast just made it more attractive in a storm.

There is a simple Copper conductor spike mounted above the mast top. It has a heavy Copper wire running straight down thru the hull to a LARGE THICK Copper plate on the outside of the hull. Right next to the keel. The plate in theory will provide a large area for the current to find a way thru the water to the bottom of the lake or ocean, under the boat.

Sometimes the lightning electrons get crowded on that wire & start jumping off of it anywhere they want to. If they do jump around, a carbon hole can result in plastic boats.

With lightning they are NO positive protections.
Realize this. By putting a Copper spike & wire you are... ATTRACTING....more lightning from farther distances. All the other boaters around you are being more protected by you. :)




No, the theory is that you will disperse any positive charge on the boat, thus making the boat not a magnet for the negative charge in the clouds.

Same as a lightning rod on a barn or radio tower.
And if it should actually strike the mast, the charge will follow the mast, so it should be grounded straight thru the hull.
Otherwise, the bolt could jump from the mast, following a path of lesser resistance, which could be you, and it could actually try to reach ground by going through the hull, leaving a hole where the hull used to be.



Positive and negative will attract each other.

Anything that can hold a charge should be grounded.

There is no way the copper wire connected to that mast top spike could carry the power of a lightning bolt, but it can disperse the static charge so your boat is less likely to attract the negative bolt.

And, if it is actively dispersing a lot of positive ions, it actually provides a "desirable" point of contact for a strike. Desirable in that it is not you !!

Also, usually there is rain associated with lightning. The rain water has a way of dispersing the charge from your boat as well.

It is the pre rain lightning or the dry lightning which is more likely to strike you, as you will have more of a positive charge.


Best way to protect the electronic toys, is to use the smallest possible fuses, on both the positive and negative power leads, or so I have been told.

There is lots of info out there, google lightning, and google "protecting marine electronics from lightning"




http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/sg071

Ground flashes can be expected to hit from 4-20% of moored sailboats per year in Florida.




http://www.sailnet.com/forums/cruising-articles/20355-path-lightning-protection.html

It is important to understand that adding a lightning-protection system to your vessel may actually increase the chances of being struck. You are inviting the lightning to come aboard and use your vessel as a path to ground. With this invitation comes the responsibility of installing the correct system?remember that the reason for installing the system in the first place is to minimize damage to the boat and injuries to the crew.
The basic lightning-protection system is based on a theory developed by Michael Faraday, called the "Faraday's Cage." The principle is to provide a grounded structure where all the parts are bonded together and have the same electrical potential.



http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance-articles/20102-lightning-precautions.html
 

Mel Taylor

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Re: Salties, how do you protect against lightening?

Mel

Have a Armadillo meet you at the waters edge with a door on his burrow entrance. :)

Lay down on the ground. Become as low as possible. That is your best chance anywhere.

LOL! In New Mexico we don't got no armadillos, we got badgers though. In Sonora they don't got no armadillos either. And, maybe no badgers too. They do got Coati Mundis though. Maybe I can impose myself on either a badger or a coati den depending where I am at the time a storm hits.
 

coFLounder

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Re: Salties, how do you protect against lightening?

No, the theory is that you will disperse any positive charge on the boat, thus making the boat not a magnet for the negative charge in the clouds.

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Roscoe,
I was glad to see you post this I was just getting ready to look up my lightning protection information.

I am fortunate to work for a company that operates world wide lightning detection networks and I have the option of receiving warnings when lightning is approaching my location and they even tell me how much time I have until it gets there.
 

cyclops2

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Re: Salties, how do you protect against lightening?

Theory is the key word when trying to prevent lightening strikes. NO ONE knows how to prevent the damage from a severe strike. Does anyone really believe you can remove a static charge from a wood or plastic boat ? How can you collect the static charges?

Static charges are as misunderstood as lightening. Ask any paper or plastic printing company.

Will a 5 mile long powerfull bolt with unlimited energy get within 100' of a little boat and say OOOPS. I am not going to blast you with billions of watts. I will just slide harmlessly down your SS guy lines.

Did you ever wonder why lightening EVER DECIDES to travel MILES sideways, in a MUCH LONGER PATH, than just going straight down . Is it a stupid, difficult power, that we humans use to market fear products that probably do not work when the really powerfull bolts strike. Do the really powerfull downstrokes very often overload a lightening system & throw loads of side flashes / splinters. Can those injure or kill people?

Sales people & P R people can say anything they want to to sell a product. There is no law against lying about a product making easy money.

Maybe a metal dome completly covering the boat would work. Maybe it would not. Anybody have the ability to have powerfull strokes to keep striking test fixtures to prove anything ?
 

TilliamWe

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Re: Salties, how do you protect against lightening?

The best way to protect against lightening is abstinence.

Lightning is whole different story, however.
 

cyclops2

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Re: Salties, how do you protect against lightening?

About 30 years ago lightening struck near our house while we were out of it. Found a dead TV & the well pump motor burned. So I did my version of Lightening Protection. We live at the top of a mountain. I ran a piece of stranded Copper wire, size #2 from 1 foot above the TV rotor right down to a solid Copper rod driven 8' into the ground. No strike DAMAGE since. I have heard the ELECTRICAL ARRESTOR inside the electric panel arcing during storms. This is a good subject. I should add a NEW ARRESTOR to the panel.

Thank you. :)
 

Peter Eikenberry

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Re: Salties, how do you protect against lightening?

It is important to understand that adding a lightning-protection system to your vessel may actually increase the chances of being struck. You are inviting the lightning to come aboard and use your vessel as a path to ground. With this invitation comes the responsibility of installing the correct system?remember that the reason for installing the system in the first place is to minimize damage to the boat and injuries to the crew.

Nonsemse. Lightning is not "attracted" Lightning takes the path of least resistance. If you happen to be in a spot where the charge has built up in the atmosphere you become the path to ground. Lightning protection systems are designed to make that path even easier and more direct. Lightning likes to take as straight a path as possible, and because of the extremely high current requires large low resistance conductors without sharp bends or turns. Even so what often causes the damage is side flashes from the main current path.

Unfortunately there is a lot of misinformation out there about lightning protection. Many myths persist, such as lightning rods should have a sharp point. Actually the end should be rounded.

Here is a list of links to information on lightning protection.

Ewen Thompson's Website on Lightning http://www.marinelightning.com
The Science Of Lightning Protection http://www.marinelightning.com/science.htm
Non-technical Article on lightning protection http://www.marinelightning.com/Information/
GroundingGuide.htm http://www.marinelightning.com/Information/GroundingGuide.htm
Technical Lightning Grounding Information http://www.marinelightning.com/Information/GroundingConcepts.htm
A New Concept for Lightning Protection of Boats http://www.marinelightning.com/EXCHANGEOct2007Final.pdf
L-36.com A collection of articles on lightning protection http://l-36.com/lightning.php
Michael Kasten on Lightning Protection http://www.kastenmarine.com/Lightning.htm
NASD on Lightning http://nasdonline.org/document/209/d000007/boating-lightning-protection.html
Cruising Resources On lightning http://cruisingresources.com/Lightning_Protection
 

cyclops2

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Re: Salties, how do you protect against lightening?

What a waste of download time.

Search this title.... applicability of lightning elimination devices

It is by a Mr. Mousa.
 
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