Questionable Project Mercruiser 5.7L What to do?

I have recently purchased a fixer-upper, a 96 Bayliner Capri 2050LS 40th Anniversary Edit.

After prowling for a good month for a "diamond in the rough" project looking mainly for a 87-91 model, as they seemed to be the most reasonable with the budget I had for buying a boat. I found this one and it seemed to fit the bill, plus for the price I almost had to buy it. The engine was questionable but the rest of it looked really good, or better than any other boat I had looked at.
I could tell someone had been in the motor and outdrive before from all the blue rtv everywhere. After bring it home 3 days ago and trying to get the starter put on it today, I found a broken bolt in the block. :facepalm:
Not to mention it is missing a shift bellow and the oil in outdrive is contaminated with metal shavings and has an awful smell to it.

As if I had hoped to dodge having to pull the motor, looks like I will have to. It is probably plausible to get the broken bolt out with the motor in the boat, but its a lot more comfortable for me to work on an engine stand. Plus from researching and watching some videos, it doesnt look like there is a whole lot to pulling these engines. Some have claimed pulling one in 30mins, and since I have to pull the outdrive anyways...why not right?
So now I was wondering if someone could advise me on what I might do next. I plan on doing all the work myself, because labor is killer.

#1 Pull motor and remove broken bolt, check to see if motor will turn and if so run a compression test and any other possible test there is. If all checks out, reinstall and continue.
#2 If motor appears seized, should I rebuild or replace with long block? I have found long blocks for $1200 with 2 year warranty and the cost of rebuild parts to be around $1000. I would call myself an intermediate mechanic, but I have only rebuilt an engine once and I had assistance.
#3 Its not worth it, I will have more tied up in the boat than it would be worth if it was in good running condition. Get rid of it for what I can get out of it, and forget about owning a boat until I can afford a really good boat. Which I will probably pay more for a really good boat than it would cost me to fix this one and I will be on the water much sooner and no boat payment.

I had planned on keeping the boat for several years and try to get the most out of it. It is plenty big and should have plenty of power for what I need. Just stuck in this crossroad of man vs machine...oh and Mr. Bill Fold is there too.

Thank you for taking the time to read my long paragraph,
Seth

Re: Questionable Project Mercruiser 5.7L What to do?

Ayuh,.... Options #1, or #2 sounds feasible...

In my shop, a 1/2 hour from boat to stand is entirely possible...

Re: Questionable Project Mercruiser 5.7L What to do?

1) Decide how much the boat is worth. Around here a 20', 5.7L, 15 year old Bayliner bowrider in perfect condition would be worth about $5000.

2) If it's not perfect, be realistic about what it's worth. Upholstery is EXPENSIVE, soft floors are EXPENSIVE.

the oil in outdrive is contaminated with metal shavings and has an awful smell to it.

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3) Figure on spending $1000 for an SEI outdrive.

4) Bellows kits, tools, gimbal bearings, etc will be about $500.

The engine was questionable

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5) Figure on spending $1500 on a rebuilt engine.

6) 15 year old exhaust manifolds and risers will quickly destroy your new engine. $500.

7) Decide if the $5000 you're going to have in it (parts plus initial cost of boat) would be better spent on a different boat.

Re: Questionable Project Mercruiser 5.7L What to do?

Seth,

Sorry to hear that the project is already growing in size. Before pulling engine, evaluate what sort of time, money, and effort the whole job will take. It is very easy to become attached to your initial buy, and continue down a long road/project. Just another $2K and project will be done, another, and another. Nothing wrong with a good project, just realize their will be no ROI at resale. If that evaluation means, that a boat will have to wait, you have a number of options available to you.

1) If seller misrepresented anything, consider contacting and recinding sale. Don't assume because he said "as is", that he is fully in clear. The blue rtv is clear evidence he was in the drive.
2) Sell it as a project boat, and get what you can out of it, but most likely take a loss.
3) Part out the boat, motor, drive, and trailer. You might make your money back or a little extra, and learn considerably more, but you will have allot more time into it.

Given your earlier statements, along with this additional info, it is highly unlikely that a compression and leakdown test will pass. I'd do my best to test engine in boat, otherwise you will for go any chance a option #1. Otherwise, at this point, I'd assume you need a long block. The outdrive repair is another area that it is not worth even buying/renting all the special tools and doing the repair yourself. IMO, the internal adjustments and procedures to rebuild an outdrive are a level above engine rebuilding. An SEI replacement drive is $1500.

You are at $3K for just motor/drive, and will probably need:
- Bellows and bearing
- Shift cable
- Other misc you haven't found yet.

Now, the other iceburg is those small soft spots you originally mentioned. They can grow into quite a project on their own. In this case the material costs are lower, but the amount of labor goes up considerably.

At this point, I'd estimate $4-5K worth of parts, plus all that "free" labor. I'm sure that was not what you were thinking at the purchase. Sorry to be the bearer of that news, but it is always better to have both eyes open going into a project.

OK, what would I do in your shoes? I would consider #1, if he misrepresented the drive (you didn't mention it in the earlier post), for at least a partial refund. Then I would go with #3, take my lumps, and get what I could. But, then again, I like taking things apart.


PS: I'm a very slow typer and did not mean to repeat info from 45auto.

Re: Questionable Project Mercruiser 5.7L What to do?

45Auto, I have a guy locally thats does good work with marine upholstery and counts it as more of a hobby than a service and has very reasonable rates. I will only need the front middle bow seat and the engine cover recovered. So I think I'm going to save a good deal on going that route. The soft floors however, I have never done a floor job, but I have a great deal experience with glassing and feel as though I could do at best a step above mediocre job at it. I know just about anyone here would say that doing anything less than perfect is just asking for more water intrusion and rot to occur again. I get that, I understand completely and would love to do it that way. However, I just want this boat to last 4-5 years and then trade it off. If this would be a purchase I was planning on keeping 10+ years I could see spending the extra grand for a certain type of this and a special kind of that. Not so much cutting corners, just may not do it the absolute 100% way, but is cheaper and does a good job and would be better than OEM. Plus theres the "Hey, I did that." factor. Which I got to admit, was highly stoked about it and still fairly am. I have access to a huge selection of tools at work, and know a good tool & die man. This is also a place about 45mins from here with a lot of new and used boat parts who take trade ins on busted up stuff for remanned items. I havnt talked to them yet, but I am going to poke around and see what they can offer me.

Now, question. Is it correct that I should replace the drive as a whole and not count on replacing just the upper or lower? I have read that it should be replaced as a whole and just wanted confirmation.

Again, I didn't plan on this being a quickie project. I would much rather drag it out so I don't take a huge initial hit on Bill Fold, except for big ticket items. However I dont want to have to convince myself or make anyone else convince me to let it go. And honestly at this point the more I work on it, the more of a love hate relationship grows. It's weird as my truck only got this much attention, and now its being directed else where.

John_S, I completely understand "getting attached". A bigger part of me wants to fix her, but I am trying to come back down and re-evaluate everything. Although, you are right...taking it apart and rebuilding would be a lot of fun and since I am done with my truck, I will need something to spend time on.
I may have been ignorant at the time of purchase, but its a fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me type thing. I could not bring myself to posting this boat somewhere and saying "Just needs some TLC" as others do. I cant imagine putting my own headaches on someone elses shoulders. Being said that, I would have to take a much larger loss on it than I would like to. I can take the $4000 it would take and be right there with a reasonable price for the boat when it is done. I am going to do some more thinking and I genuinely appreciate all the advice. The people really make this forum what it is. I am here more than my fullsizechevy forum now and thats saying alot. lol

Best of wishes

Re: Questionable Project Mercruiser 5.7L What to do?

Allot of shavings in the oil, would probably mean both should be replaced. I am not sure what the "odor" comments mean, outside of it smelling different than normal gear oil. Blue rtv would mean the prior owner had no clue, and who knows what was done. Maybe he was too cheap to buy a simple gasket set. You didn't mention any water in oil, but you could leak test it. If it failed that, maybe that is enough nails in the drive coffin, or take it to a merc dealer for eval. Also, if you pull the drive and the yoke is rusty or water is in the u-joint bellows, that would probably seal the need for an SEI drive.

PS: Just so you know, I have never repaired an outdrive. I have reviewed the service manual procedures and tools needed, and outside of water pump, and seals, "I" would not tackle any internal bearings, shafts, etc replacements. The probability of "me" making it worse, gets much higher. The SEI drives have had mostly decent reviews/comments here.

BTW, I wasn't suggesting to unload it on unwitting buyers, but to divulge it as a project boat and what you do know.

Re: Questionable Project Mercruiser 5.7L What to do?

I like working on my boats. Sounds like you do too.
Try to determine engine condition in the boat if you can. If it is trash, short block it. I found some reman outdrives in Jupiter FL that come with a 1 year warranty. I installed one on my dad's boat (after a stern talking to about rocks). 3 years on the drive with no issues.

V

Re: Questionable Project Mercruiser 5.7L What to do?

45Auto said:

6) 15 year old exhaust manifolds and risers will quickly destroy your new engine. $500.

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if they are in operable condition and not clogged in the water passages or cracked, I dont understand this logic?

Re: Questionable Project Mercruiser 5.7L What to do?

Thanks again for all the info guys.
I actually didnt think of buying a parts boat, that may be a good idea. I got a friend with a early 90s Bayliner that he is try to get rid of, the motor is shot but maybe the outdrive is usable. Not sure if his would be a Gen I or II tho? I need a GenII Alpha One.

Im with stackz, I dont understand that either.

I have decided however to keep the boat and continue with the restoration. I have found means of getting it out and I have a space to do the work. May not be ideal, but it will suffice.

So another question, where is a good place to buy overhaul kits for my motor? I have searched and found some sites but they dont give any clarification as to what it fits directly. How do I go about finding what model 5.7L that I have? They list a 5.7L, 5.7LX, 5.7L Magnum. Any ideas?

When I was looking for parts, I was just generally looking for new cam, lifters, rings, oil pump, bearings, and seals. Is there anything else that I should replace while the engine is out? I have planned on replacing the engine coupler, but is there anything else?

Re: Questionable Project Mercruiser 5.7L What to do?

You are working on a 1996 Chevy 350. Parts can be found anywhere and everywhere. Is it a Vortec Engine? Quick way to tell is the intake bolts... there should be 8, facing the sky.

V

Re: Questionable Project Mercruiser 5.7L What to do?

I would first see if the engine is ok or not. For all you know, it could be fine and just needs a new starter with new bolts. If it is pooched, then count on another block and possibly heads. The outdrive sounds like it is pooched, so start looking for a replacement upper and lower. You don't necessarily need to buy a new unit, a used unit should be able to do you fine as long as it is installed correctly. Do your homework on what you have to look for when shopping for a used upper/lower. Be ready to spend more than you think when it comes to the upholstery, if there is anything rotted then it could get expensive. Does the floor have 'soft spots'??? If so, you are in for a LOT of work and it may not be worth it. There really aren't any shortcuts because that floor makes up a big piece of the boat's structure and if it is done half-arsed, you are looking at even worse problems. Good luck with it!!!

Re: Questionable Project Mercruiser 5.7L What to do?

V, its not a Vortec and far as I can tell has no ECM or any kind of "brain box". Just a distributor and an ignition module on the back of it.

bnicov, correct. The motor is still possibly good, and I hope it is. I am going sunday to look for an outdrive.

Sorry guys as I had said I was going to get some work done on it today, but I went to tell my grandfather that I am engaged now and sat talked with him. I work night shift and at that time I had already been up for 24hrs. So I came home and crashed. Really sucks with the night shift, wish I had a shop b/c I stay up all night on days off anyways.

Re: Questionable Project Mercruiser 5.7L What to do?

Given the engine was siezed and no oil in it, need to wait to see from the tear-down if it is even rebuildable, or at least how much needs to be taken off cylinders, etc. It is a GM 350 SBC 87-95 1-pc rear main seal, 2 bolt mains, recessed pistons, with 64cc crate engine heads, center bolt valve covers, self-align rockers, probably hyd flat cam, etc.

Re: Questionable Project Mercruiser 5.7L What to do?

Thank you for all the replies, just thought I would follow up on my findings with the motor.

The cylinder walls were rusted, however no water made it down to the oil pan. The crank, rods, and underneath the pistons are all clean.

It is now sitting at a machine shop getting cleaned up and pressure tested for cracks. For a general price, just for the peoples information, the shop has initially quoted me $700 for clean up, pressure test the block & heads & manifolds, bore cylinders, new pistons, lifters, push rods, and turn crank.

I will be assembling the engine myself as well. Just wanted to throw out some price figures so people can get an idea of what it might cost them.

He will be calling me monday or tuesday with an update. I didnt see any cracks when I took it apart, so hopefully he will have good news for me.

Thank you again for all the support.

Re: Questionable Project Mercruiser 5.7L What to do?

If the cylinder heads do not come back indicating a crack, you most likely had a leak in the exhaust manifolds or risers. If the boat is raw water cooled and has seen salt water, probably best to go with new manifolds and risors, vs risking a repeat water injestion.

It most likely hydro-locked, and is what caused the started bolt to break off, when they tried to restart. They probably did, but if not, check the rods to make sure they are not bent.

Re: Questionable Project Mercruiser 5.7L What to do?

John_S said:

If the cylinder heads do not come back indicating a crack, you most likely had a leak in the exhaust manifolds or risers. If the boat is raw water cooled and has seen salt water, probably best to go with new manifolds and risors, vs risking a repeat water injestion.

It most likely hydro-locked, and is what caused the started bolt to break off, when they tried to restart. They probably did, but if not, check the rods to make sure they are not bent.

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I was thinking the same, the machine shop is going to check everything and report back to me. I dont believe its ever been in salt water. Far as I can tell from the history of the boat, it has stayed in-land. From the amount of rust, one could believe it was at a time.

I have been looking at new manifolds and risers and I think I have decided on some aluminum ones. A lot lighter and not as expensive as stainless. ($500)

Thank you again John.

Re: Questionable Project Mercruiser 5.7L What to do?

I have been looking at new manifolds and risers and I think I have decided on some aluminum ones. A lot lighter and not as expensive as stainless. ($500)

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Don't overlook the cast iron. They last a long time in fresh water.

Re: Questionable Project Mercruiser 5.7L What to do?

Any update from the machine shop John?

V

Re: Questionable Project Mercruiser 5.7L What to do?

Should be getting a call today from them. Heads and block arent cracked, thats as much as I know. lol

Re: Questionable Project Mercruiser 5.7L What to do?

Every project I take on is questionable, but they usually come out good in the end!