Noob Question!!

angel_guardian · Jul 18, 2011

I am very new to the whole boating world. I've got a Glastron ssv-178 that i restored... i have a Mercury Black Max 150 (roughly 1982-84) This motor will not start! I'm troubleshooting my way through this and so far I am getting fuel to carbs, spark to plugs, etc. A friend suggested a few other issues I've worked out. Here is my question, does this motor HAVE to be submerged in water to start? Is there some sort of kill switch? It seems to be firing all over just nothing beyond this. Batteries, connections, everything seems to be clean and in working order. Any help or directions towards wiring diagrams etc would be helpful. I am on a working man's budget with no credit card to buy books online etc. Thanks in advance!

CharlieB · Jul 18, 2011

Re: Noob Question!!

Try here to see if your manual is available for download.

***Edited to add this forgotten link****
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=309079&p=2072211#post2072211

Start with basic troubleshooting, the motor only needs a few things to run.

Compression, all cyls should be within 10% of each other. The exact number depends on the quality of the gauge used, a quality unit may read 120 psi while a cheaper gauge may only read 80 psi.

A hot blue spark of at least 7/16 inch and at the right time. Close to TDC should start, to advanced or too retarded makes it difficult to start.

Fuel, are the spark plugs getting wet? When was the last time the motor ran? Is it time to clean and rebuild the carbs with new gaskets? Hoses? Rebuild fuel pump? Primer Bulb?

Bass Buster One · Jul 18, 2011

Re: Noob Question!!

Word of advise, Angel, never run or even try to run your motor without a water source hooked up for cooling. While it won't allow or prevent your motor from starting, but will keep it from overheating when it does start. You can either buy Flush Muffs at any Boat Parts Store, on line here on IBoats.com, or at Bass Pro Shops, West Marine, etc., or, you can have it in the lake with the motor down in the water. Just sharing.

angel_guardian · Jul 18, 2011

Re: Noob Question!!

i know there is some compression just by the pressure to turn the flywheel by hand (not easy freespin or impossible lock up) but will look into a gauge; I also know there is a spark @ least 1/2 long due to friend holding plug away from connector while I turned key, as far as timing goes thats a little advanced for my knowledge so may talk to some buddies with little more mechanical skills; and last but not least, I have removed all carbs and soaked in cleaner then sprayed all ports, replaced all hoses from tank to carbs and new spark plugs; rebuilt the starter as well as an added bonus; I have some mechanical experience but nothing extravagent. All help has been appreciated and duely noted. I hope to get this motor running by end of summer for at least one day on the lake with the family

angel_guardian · Jul 18, 2011

Re: Noob Question!!

......and as far as the cooling and water source; I will definately get the water muffs, I was just postponing that until I got a good crank on motor. I knew not to run the motor for more than a few seconds without water but was just unsure if maybe there was some sort of kill or float switch that would cause it to not fire up...

CharlieB · Jul 19, 2011

Re: Noob Question!!

Running even for a few seconds without watr will burn the impeller due to the tight fit/friction of the rubber impeller to the metal pump liner.

Notice I edited my first respone to include the forgotten link. D'oh!

angel_guardian · Jul 19, 2011

Re: Noob Question!!

ahhhh ok will definately pick up a water muff today then. Thank you for the info and the link. Think I may have found what I need there!!!

angel_guardian · Jul 19, 2011

Re: Noob Question!!

Well after compression test I've found nothing new. All cylinders are running 115 - 120 psi... I guess next on the checklist would be the timing. I will have to see who has the qualifications to check this for me. If anyone can think of other steps to troubleshoot this issue they would be greatly appreciated. Thanks to all who have helped thus far!

Coloradolakeboy · Jul 19, 2011

Re: Noob Question!!

If it was mine I would:

1. Replace old fuel lines, connectors and fuel filters.
2. Replace spark plugs
3. Rebuild carbs and new needle/seats check floats in a bowl of water.
4. Rebuild fuel pump. Replace fuel lines from pump to carbs.
5. 7/16" spark gap test
6. compression test (should do this first, but everyone believes their motor is not shot)
7.Test ignition with OHM meter and DVA

Silvertip · Jul 20, 2011

Re: Noob Question!!

Unless you know what you are doing (as in do you have a service manual) DO NOT mess with the timing because there is 99% chance that is not the problem. You haven't answered the question about wet plugs. Mix some fuel/oil in a spray bottle and spritz it into the carbs while cranking. If the engine now fires, you have a carburetor/fuel pump/fuel delivery problem. Are you pushing in on the key while cranking (that's how you choke/prime) the engine. Have you squeezed the primber bulb until it's firm.

CharlieB · Jul 20, 2011

Re: Noob Question!!

angel_guardian said:
I also know there is a spark @ least 1/2 long due to friend holding plug away from connector while I turned key

LOL, so you have good spark on ONE cylinder.

Find more buddies and repeat the test on the other cylinders as the motor will not start and run on just ONE, you GOT TO have good spark on ALL.

Good luck find buddies willing to hang on to the plug wires. A spark tester is a good tool to help you KEEP bbuddies!

angel_guardian · Jul 20, 2011

Re: Noob Question!!

Check, check, and check. I've replaced all fuel lines from tank (also new) all the way to carbs, removed carbs and separated each (3), soaked them in carb cleaner for several hours and then sprayed the ports for any missed gunk; all new spark plugs; "wet" i'm not sure, they seem to be but was not positive if that was just shiny and slick from being brand new; compression test is done on all 6 cyl; I had no intentions on doing timing on my own although I do have the manual for specs I'm not comfortable with that just yet so will leave that to the pros; I think I can afford a spark tester (can't afford to lose 5 more friends tho); uhm I think thats about it... I will post back with some more updates ("wet" check, spark test, and spray bottle test) soon. Thank you all for the replies and advice!

I have also been pressing in on key for choke and have primed bulb until firm; (just to answer that question so it wasn't overlooked)

angel_guardian · Jul 20, 2011

Re: Noob Question!!

no luck with the spray bottle test

sprayed each opening (with throttle open) while cranking and still nothing. I swear its almost like there is a killswitch triggered or something. It sounds exactly the same just turning over and over and over not even trying to fire up. Am I missing something? I know there are a few wires hanging from my wire harness at the motor end (blue w white, green w white, brown w white, and solid tan) but I think those are for pt&t correct? Or maybe I'm not getting fuel beyond the carbs? HMMM I'm gettin stumped and I'm not the best troubleshooter... Ok off to the wet check and spark test;

Coloradolakeboy · Jul 20, 2011

Re: Noob Question!!

If you do not have spark, then it is the ignition. My guess would be the power packs.

CharlieB · Jul 21, 2011

Re: Noob Question!!

Guessing is not allowed.

TESTING to PROVE what it is or isn't is the only way to prevent buying un-necessary parts.

Spark on even ONE cyl should make at least one 'Pop'

Finish the spark test, then move on to checking timing.

angel_guardian · Jul 25, 2011

Re: Noob Question!!

ok spark test completed.... I have spark on 1 and 2 but not on 3,4,5, or 6. Would that cause motor to not start at all or would it at least start but not run on 4 cyl? I will replace the ignition coils also but still troubleshooting whether or not this is cause of not starting.

angel_guardian · Jul 25, 2011

Re: Noob Question!!

ok and then to troubleshoot, I removed the positive wire from 2 moved it to 4 got spark on 4, then moved 2 down to 6 and got spark on 6. same process with 1, 3 and 5; so i now know that the coils are all ok. i ran back thru the wiring and do not see any cracks, breaks, crimps, or corrosion. At which point I run back to the block with the three wires running up to the flywheel. So my question is this now that i know the coils aren't bad then what could be the issue?

relocyo · Jul 25, 2011

Re: Noob Question!!

Just throwin this out there, but do you have a killswitch lanyard on your setup? Have seen this plenty people overlook the lanyard kill switch all the time... Make sure its plugged up if ya have that type of setup... Good luck! And I havent seen anyone mention a "linc n sync" for the timing issue, joe reeves linc n sync, search for it easy to do and may fix any timing issues that are present...

angel_guardian · Jul 25, 2011

Re: Noob Question!!

awesome thanks for reply. killswitch lanyard no just a toggle switch... after few more diagnostics i've found that i have bad wires on 4 and 5. just need to figure out 3 and 6 now. which is odd cause my layout goes

2........1 1 & 2 good
4........3 3 bad & 4 good
6........5 5 good & 6 bad

coils good, wires good (now), hmmm?

angel_guardian · Jul 26, 2011

Re: Noob Question!!

If the problem lies inside the switch box on those two terminals is the switch box shot? or can it be repaired? it is filled with that gel and has no detachment or access to back of box to just replace terminal that i can tell.

Noob Question!!

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