Help with Floor - 1998 Astro

Well folks, I am about to cry. I love this boat and hope this isn't too serious.

First, the boat in question is a 1998 Astro, 19 foot fish and ski.

Today, I was cleaning out the boat, getting ready for the weekend, which for me is supposed to extend into next week. I was cleaning out the ski storage compartment which runs down the middle of the boat. I don't ski much, we mostly tube, so I actually use that for fishing pole storage. I noticed the floor in there was wet, which didn't stress me much. It seems like whenever it gets wet in there, it takes forever to dry, which I always attributed to being closed up.

I have monitored this over the years, and always figured it wasn't getting wet due to a leak, but rather from water coming over the transom and rolling up. Plenty of times I go out, mostly when fishing and I don't seem to get anything in there. Plenty of times I will pull out, open my plug and nothing comes out. Whenever I am tubing in particular and come off a plane, I tend to get a lot of water over the back.

Today however, I stepped down in there and noticed a cracking sound. So, I pulled up the carpet and was a bit depressed. I can't tell how much, but it looks like the wood and fiberglass for a couple inches each side, right down the middle is pretty much rotting away. There did appear to be some standing water down in there.

I am going to try and attach a couple of pics.

So, I guess I need to know about everything about this. I don't know that I have the cash to take this in for repair right now. I'd like to do it myself if possible.

In the meantime, I guess I also just need to know some basics. How serious is this? Can I still run the boat or shold I be dry docking right away? I had intended on being out quite a bit this weekend.

So, please help me with anything and everything I need to know. I love this boat and this just crushes me.

Re: Help with Floor - 1998 Astro

Well, I'll say I'm an Astro fan..good boats.

Unfortunately, you have a major repair on your hands. You have a rotten floor and stringer system, and I'd bet a $100 bill the transom is in similar shape.

Now on the how long can I run it. Well no ones knows that, and it's been discussed here plenty of times. All anyone here will tell you is that you're boat should be repaired before using it again, but it's a choice you'll have to make yourself.

Your boat my go for 5 more years and be okay (I really doubt it), but on the other hand it could twist under a load and crack the hull the next trip out. Bottom line is no one can say for sure.

I'm sure this isn't what you wanted to hear, but it's the truth...personally I would not go near the water until it's repaired properly.

CW

Re: Help with Floor - 1998 Astro

Thanks for the first pass on advice. Hope some others will weight in also.

Call me naive or optimistic, I am still hoping for some good luck here. I have done some more messing around and here is what I found.

The area of heaviest impact seems to be right in the middle of the boat, about 8 inches wide and about 4 feet. I am attaching two new pics. It seems to be that there is a fiberglass rib, not sure of the right word, that seems to be running right up the middle of the boat. I guess that is sort of a spine or something.

The bad wood is directly on each side of that rib. That total piece is wood, plywood, is maybe 10 inches across. The rear of the compartment in question ends right under the rear seats, and then behind that is the gas tank. I can't see how far the plywood extends past the rear seats. The wood that the gas tank sits on appears to be fine.

I also can't see how far forward the wood extends. I will try and take a picture of the whole boat if its helpful, but the wood in that compartment seems to run forward to the edge of the passenger area, right by the windshield. Then there is the raised front deck, and I can't really see under there.

That fiberglass rib or spine, well only observationally, seems fine. I stepped on it with some light pressure, and didn't hear any cracking.

The truly rotten wood, meaning what I could break and peel apart with my hand is what you see in these two new pictures.

So, again, probably many questions since I am uneducated here.
-How likely is it that the wood is the majority or all of the problem?
- Does that wood serve as any stabilizing or bracing element to the boat? Meaning, if I run with out it in place, does that increase possible torqueing on that rib or spine?
- How likely is it that that wood is one piece or two pieces? Thinking that trying to replace that wood in and of itself doesn't look terrible, but trying to do it through the comparment door does look kind of terrible.
- As for the rib or spine, how can I test to determine damage there?
- If I were to go and attempt to replace that wood, does it do any good to apply a lyer of fiberglass over the exposed fiberglass after I remove it fully?

I may not even be asking the right questions here, so if I am not, tell me.

I have only been able to poke around other places in the floor so far. The fiberglass in the back of the boat, rear of the gas tank and about 4 inches from the transom appears very dry and solid. That rib appears solid, albet wet and dirty.

Again, in looking at this, this seems to be a weird design defect. Meaning, when the boat is stopped in the water, this impacted area of the boat appears to be at plane, or slightly lower than the transom. So, if water does come over the back, I can see where it would end up here. However, when on the trailer, again this part of the boat is at plane or even slightly lower than the transom. So, I can see how water would pool there, unless I really waited on the ramp until every drop came out. I just have to think that is what is happening as opposed to water pushing thru the bottom.

Again, maybe I am naive here.

Re: Help with Floor - 1998 Astro

Well,you don't have to check the stringers as you can seem them gone from inside the locker.

And yes the deck is certainly a structural part of your boat....anyway you look at your boat is in dire straits for repairs. There is just no way for the deck to be that bad without major rot all over.

Sorry for the bad news.

Re: Help with Floor - 1998 Astro

Some more questions -

What are the indicators? I read somewhere else about a test involving taking a core sample involving drilling some holes. Is the stringer what I was calling the rib or spine? So, if I were to drill, is that what I would tap into?

Just trying to learn a few things here especially as I examine the rest of the boat. Trying to understand what I shold be looking for or what all to take pictures of.

Re: Help with Floor - 1998 Astro

davescountry said:

Some more questions -

What are the indicators? I read somewhere else about a test involving taking a core sample involving drilling some holes. Is the stringer what I was calling the rib or spine? So, if I were to drill, is that what I would tap into?

Just trying to learn a few things here especially as I examine the rest of the boat. Trying to understand what I shold be looking for or what all to take pictures of.

Click to expand...

Yeah what you are calling ribs are stringers. The stringers are the sides of your ski locker and it's mush....

What you should check by drilling is the transom.....we already know about the rest of the boat. Drill a few test holes and see if the chips are dry and solid. Be sure and set a depth marker on the bit so you don't go all the way thru.

Re: Help with Floor - 1998 Astro

OK - Starting to figure this out. Spending more time reading tonight than troubleshooting, but have done a little bit more.

Just to make sure I am referencing this the right way. I am re-atteching one of my earlier pics with some labels on it.

First, just to validate, the pic is of the bottom of my ski compartment. The area visibly damaged is right up the middle, on the bottom. It appears to be a thin, I'd say 1/4 inch piece of plywood.

In my pic with the labels, "A" is what I was referring to as a rib, which I now understand to be a stringer. On each side of "A" are some channels, labeled "B." The "B" areas, are very dirty, but feel solid both to touch and when I tap them with a hammer and mallet. I know that is not conclusive, but they aren't mushy to the touch.

I ran a drill in about 4 spots on A. The fiberglass shavings looked pretty white - pretty much like any fiberglass I have ever cut or drilled. The wood, I can best desribe as a hair reddish, maybe similar to pencil shavings. It didn't look like pine, but didn't neccesarily look wet and certainly didn't look black or rotten. It was a hair clumpy on the bit, but I had the drill on pretty low speed and pretty much fell apart when I touched it.

Also in my pic, I have a label "C" in blue and a line. This is the really rotten plywood. The side to side dimension of that playwood is roughly 16 inches, at which point it appears to perhaps be beveled into another stringer. That plywood would be the bottom of the ski locker. The really rotten wood was within 2 inches of each side of "A." The rest of the plywood is wet, but not disintegrated. I can't actually pull it up. I need to go to Home Depot or someplace tomorrow and try and get some type of saw that can cut down the side of it.

Visually only, when you go past the plywood, things appear mostly OK. It appears dry and sounds solid to the touch, or to the thump. I tried to tap around in there with a mallet and hammer.

As for the transom, I haven't really gotten to that yet. The batteries are in the way and I haven't pulled them. However, I was able to get to what appears to be the same stringer as in "A." I ran the drill into that, and again got white fiberglass and the wood appears to be solid and dry.

I can't see towards the front, but the rotten plywood in the pic only extends to the back of the ski locker. I started to see if I cold remove the gas tank and shift it forward, but wasn't able to get very far. I can see down there with a flashlight and see that the plywood decking doesn't extend past the rear seats.

Re: Help with Floor - 1998 Astro

Okay, Stringer your have marked A is just that the main center stringer which runs the entire length of the boat, the two "channels" B are just the bare hull in between the two hull stiffiners. The next stringers you'll have are the sides of the ski locker...look inside and back under the deck (around 4 or 5 inches on each side) and you'll see the next main stringers and deck support. Those are the ones you need to worry about.

The white fiberglass shavings don't matter as they are always the same (least wise for the most part) it's the wood chips you're instrested in. I would be willing to bet that the reddish stuff you got was just some filler or cardboard from stiffeners "C".

Am I confusing you now?

Re: Help with Floor - 1998 Astro

OK - here is what today brought. I didn't spend quite as much time on this since I had some other things to take care of.

Starting with your comments - I think I understand. When I really get my head down in there, and look all around -- side to side, and forward, I don't see any other signs of damage or rot.

In your comment, when you said look back under the deck, I assume you mean in the ski compartment, towards the bow of the boat. The rear of the ski compartment is only about 4 inches from the hatch to the comparment. The comparment runs maybe another 3 feet past the forward edge of the hatch towards the bow. When I look up that way, as well as side to side to other stringers you mention, I don't see any signs at all. The coloration looks like what it should be. I tried to stick my camera in there to take pics, but it didn't work out so well.

I still haven't had time to fully examine the transom. I need to get my batteries out to really examine from the inside. An external examination, everything looks fine. I will try and get more in depth tomorrow.

I did try and see if I could remove that plywood that is rotted, basically what was indicated by C in my pic. Again, the piece of plywood appears to be about 16 inches across and runs from the rear of the ski comparment forward about 7 feet. I can't seem to get much more of it out. I went and picked up a dremel tool attatchment - basically a small circular saw attachment, but that didn't go very far.

Again, I may still be naive, but the damage so far appears contained to the bottom decking on that ski comparment. I had hoped to cut some replacement panels tomorrow, get them epoxied and then see about glassing them in Tuesday morning. I don't know for sure how long all of that takes to cure out.

How much support does that plywood give to the overall structure? I am concerned that trying to work simply from inside the compartment, I may not be able to get far enough forward to remove enough. That is, even if I find a tool that can do it.

Re: Help with Floor - 1998 Astro

Dave look at the thread in my signature.....I too had some rot in my ski locker

Re: Help with Floor - 1998 Astro

I'm going to take a stab in the dark since I can't actually physically see the boat, but I'm willing to bed that if you reach into that locker and feel the floor to the left and the right, you'll find the wood rotting and falling apart...if that's the debris that I saw.

If they built the stringer system the same way that center rib was done, I'd be less worried about the stringers themselves. If they build the fiberglass up thick enough over the stringers, the glass itself is going to be more structural than the core material. I'd have a good look in the bilge area, give it a couple of good taps with the end of a screw driver to see if it's giving you the same feed back from the bottom to the top. IF that all checks out, the motor doesn't move the transom when you operate the T-n-T, then I'd be out enjoying the boat with the knowledge that you are going to be tearing up that floor this year.

Just don't horse around when you are out on the water. No hard hole shots, avoid jumping big waves and you should be fine.

Take a look at the bottom of the boat on the trailer for stress cracks, bulges, etc. If that checks out, I'd use the boat and make plans to start digging.

BTW, I have a 1998 Astro too...but mine has wheels and was made by GM

Re: Help with Floor - 1998 Astro

Gents -

Thanks for weighing in. I can use all the advice out there.

Here is what I plan today. I am going to try adn take a closer look at the transom and ine will run the TnT and see what happens. I will also try and get back in the locker area with a shop vac, do some clean up and take another pic.

I am trying to upload another pic and hopefully this one will upload bigger. I have some new labels on it and will try and explain better what is there.

The area labeled "C" is right up the middle of the ski locker, on the bottom of the at deck of course. Anyways, the are C is the really rotten stuff. It runs about 6 inches, so the green line is about 6 inches across.

The labeled "D" is meant to show the rest of that plywood piece. So, the vertical lines are roughly where the edge of the truly bad rot is. The dimensions of "D" is about 16 inches, so there is still about 5 inches on each side where that plywood is rotted, but I can't get it out with the tools I have.

Everything in the middle of the two vertical lines and the rest of that whole interior compartment is fine. Very solid. Again, I will try and shop vac this in a bit and then see about another picture.

I'd like to use this boat this coming week. I have family in town with a couple nephews that I'd like to take tubing. I wouldn't call this agreesive tubing, just tubing. For the rest of the year, it would be tubing with my daughters (they are 2 and 4, so maybe 10 MPH) and fishing, where I'd probably want some speed, but wouldn't really be agreesive driving.

So, this is probably crazy, but here is what I am thinking. Assuming for a moment that the damage is isolated to this one area in the locker. I am thinking about cutting some new plywood roughly the width of the open area that you see, between the vertical lines, and placing it in there on top of the stringer with something like liquid nails. Then, taking another piece of ply wood the full 16 inches and placing it on top of the inserted piece, and the existing piece that I can't get it. Again, just putting it in place with something like liquid nails. What I don't know is whether I should try and epoxy those pieces or just cover them with something simple like Thompsons since they are meant to be temporary.

My theory is not to try and make this a permanent repair, but a temporary one to either get me through the next week, or maybe all season. Just hoping that this patch would offer the stability or reinforcement neccesary.

I know some will probably groan over this idea, but again this is only meant to be temporary. I just don't think I can get that whole piece of plywood removed, get new plywood epoxied, inserted and glassed in the next day and a half.

Re: Help with Floor - 1998 Astro

Okay, I'm trying to wrap my head around this. Is the area you are trying to fix the "floor" of the ski locker and not the actual "floor" you stand on, the seats are attached to, etc? Seems like that is what I'm seeing if the opening is the cut out for the ski locker. If that's the case, there's nothing to worry about, you just rotted out your ski locker floor.

It's still worth looking into to see what else is being damaged by moisture and rot, but if that's all it is, go enjoy your boat. I'd be more concerned if I could feel the floor flexing when I was hitting waves.

Re: Help with Floor - 1998 Astro

Yes, that is exactly it. It is the floor of my ski locker, not my actual floor that I stand on.

I still believe that fundamentally, my stringers are fine and that my transom is fine. Based on external examination all the way around. I don't have any idea of what, or if there is any damage to the foam, and am still not even 100% sure how to check that.

As an update -- so I did the repair I described above. I cut a piece of plywood the rough dimension of the rot, and secured it to the top of the main stringer. Then took another piece of plywood the overlapped that into the other part of the floor of the ski locker. So, I have a bridge of sorts.

I actually took the boat out yesterday with some a couple pretty heavy hours of tubing. I was surprised by a couple of things. First, I firmly believe that the water is entering the boat simply from water coming over the transom when coming off plane and from people getting in and out of the boat. My "proof" of this is that my live well, which is obviously secured from other areas of the boat, had 3/4 to a gallon of water in it at the end of the day.

Second, I am also surprised how much the water comes up the middle of the boat, I guess that is technically reffered to as the bilge, but basically comes up the middle of the boat and pushes into that ski locker. I watched it quite a bit yesterday and could see some seepage on that new wood I put in. Also oddly, my actual bilge pump is up kind of high, basically at the top of one of the stringers, so water could get pretty far up the middle of the boat before the bilge pump would have any effectiveness.

So, until I can analyze the foam, I just kind of believe that so far, things seem isolated to that floor of the ski locker. And, that is obviously kind of a weak link there in terms of what would rot out first.

I am still going to investigate this further and maybe take it to a pro for their view. My repair that I described was really intended as a temporary fix only.

Re: Help with Floor - 1998 Astro

Good luck to you my friend....let's us know if we can assist further.