Transom/Stringers/Deck replacement. What questions should I be asking the shop?

I've got my grandfather's boat and I'm finally getting around to restoring it. It's a 17' 1977 Tri Hull that I'm pretty sure was an Invader Capri hull purchased bare and customized by a boat shop other than Invader in Giddings, TX. I took it to a shop that came very highly recommended by some friends of mine but he outsources his glass work to someone else locally. I got the contact info of the glass guy and I intend to call him to see what his process is so I know what's going on with my boat. I already got permission from both shops to drop by the glass shop to inspect my boat while the work is going on and they readily agreed that I could do so (made me more comfortable for sure). I'd like to know what questions I need to ask to be sure the work is being done properly. I assume from what I've seen here that there's no way they can do the stringers, transom, and deck without pulling out all the old foam, but can they put the old foam back in or will it be so damaged that they have to replace it with new foam? Obviously I want it to be new foam.

I don't have any reason not to trust these guys but I've always been a "Trust everyone but lock your doors" guy and I want to do everything I can to ensure it's being done correctly.

Re: Transom/Stringers/Deck replacement. What questions should I be asking the shop?

Welcome to iBoats!

What all are you contemplating having done to this boat? Do you have any idea wha the costs are going to be? You should be prepared!!!

Re: Transom/Stringers/Deck replacement. What questions should I be asking the shop?

Wood,
I'm fairly certain I'm prepared for the costs. We already got estimates and agreed to have the work done. For about $5000 they're going to do stringers, transom, deck, fuel pump, carburetor rebuild, new water pump, prop repair, fuel/water separator, inspect\repair lights and electrical as necessary, inspect\replace fuel lines as necessary, change gearcase oil, and do a general tune-up of the motor (1976 85HP Johnson Javelin) to get her in good running order (plugs, wires, etc.).

This boat has HUGE sentimental value to the whole family as my grandfather bought it the year my sister (his first grandchild) was born and all 9 grandkids learned to ski and love boating on this boat. I'm sure I could do some of this stuff myself but I'd like to get her back in solid condition and then do maintenance myself from here out. I just want to make sure I'm asking the glass shop guys the right questions to be sure the work they're doing is done properly as that's the part I am the most ignorant about.

Re: Transom/Stringers/Deck replacement. What questions should I be asking the shop?

Here are some pics by the way.

Re: Transom/Stringers/Deck replacement. What questions should I be asking the shop?

Trust ME!! I totally undestand the Sentimental Aspect of boat rebuilding. Mine is a1962 Lonestar with similar qualities. Just wanted to make sure you were aware. Questions I would be asking are.. What WOOD/Plywood will you be using. What Poly/Epoxy Resin will you be using. Will you be removing ALL of the old stringers and bulkheads and replaceing with new. What Fiberglass Mat, Cloth and Woven Roving will you be using. Will you be sealing the edges of the plywood? Will you predrill and then coat all screws and bolts with sealant when installing hardware. How far will the tabbing be extended onto the hull. I'm sure there are more.

Re: Transom/Stringers/Deck replacement. What questions should I be asking the shop?

I understand sentiment and all but I cannot possibly imagine spending $5k on a boat worth maybe $1500 when it's all said and done.

Re: Transom/Stringers/Deck replacement. What questions should I be asking the shop?

ezmobee said:

I understand sentiment and all but I cannot possibly imagine spending $5k on a boat worth maybe $1500 when it's all said and done.

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Oh, I'm under no illusions about the resale value, but there have been some gifts from family members earmarked specifically for getting her back on the water. It's a totally irrational decision. But, it's the only boat I've got and my wife, knowing how important it is to me said "if this were any other boat..." So I've got to do it while the admiral is willing, lol.

Re: Transom/Stringers/Deck replacement. What questions should I be asking the shop?

The way I look at is... Where am I gunna buy a boat for $5,000 dollars that I KNOW is in this kind of condition. When it is done. You will know. Sure, You WON'T be able to get your money back but that is NOT the point. You ARE going to be keeping it in the family and you will KNOW that if you take care of her she will last for a LONG time and you will get your moneys worth out of the investment.

Re: Transom/Stringers/Deck replacement. What questions should I be asking the shop?

Woodonglass said:

The way I look at is... Where am I gunna buy a boat for $5,000 dollars that I KNOW is in this kind of condition. When it is done. You will know. Sure, You WON'T be able to get your money back but that is NOT the point. You ARE going to be keeping it in the family and you will KNOW that if you take care of her she will last for a LONG time and you will get your moneys worth out of the investment.

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Yep, the point is to get another 20+ years out of her (admittedly I'm hoping to repower her by then) not to sell her. This was exactly my thinking when I was rationalizing, er, um, justifying the expenditure.

Re: Transom/Stringers/Deck replacement. What questions should I be asking the shop?

cwcollins06 said:

I'd like to know what questions I need to ask to be sure the work is being done properly. I assume from what I've seen here that there's no way they can do the stringers, transom, and deck without pulling out all the old foam, but can they put the old foam back in or will it be so damaged that they have to replace it with new foam? Obviously I want it to be new foam.

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First off..I would be surprised if they dont install new foam.

Its not really the questions you ask..its how you ask them. If your asking inquisitively thats one thing. If your asking questions Implying IF there doing it right .. thats another. ( Kind of like questioning there integrity and skills )

I can tell you from a professional point of view .. You want to be a "welcomed" customer. You DONT want to be an "unwelcome" customer ( If you know what I mean ).

You dont want the big boss saying when you leave " Joe..get that boat done and that guy out of my hair ! ". You Want them to Care about You and Your boat.

Basically to answer your main question about what question you should ask .. The main one is " So..what kinda beer you guys like" ( bring a six or 12 pack of Bud once and a while )

I have even done "freebies" "while Im at it" for those good customers .

While I DO understand concerns about How and What your boat is being restored with..I dont think you would be able to tell the difference in lets say a GP poly resin layup compared to a VE resin layup..or if they indeed properly sealed the edges of the ply after its been installed. You would almost have to come in at 8:00 and camp out watching them do the resto to Know for sure. But the above statements Will almost undoubtedly insure a better job.

Hope this helps you understand inside a glass-guys mind set.

YD.

Re: Transom/Stringers/Deck replacement. What questions should I be asking the shop?

Yacht Dr. said:

The main one is " So..what kinda beer you guys like" ( bring a six or 12 pack of Bud once and a while ) .

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I thought you said he wanted to be a GOOD customer?

Re: Transom/Stringers/Deck replacement. What questions should I be asking the shop?

LOL.. yea I prefer the Labatts if your in the area ..

YD.

Re: Transom/Stringers/Deck replacement. What questions should I be asking the shop?

Having been a Professional Contractor for over 30 years I was NEVER offended when a customer asked me probing questions about how I was going to perform the job or what materials I was going to use. Nor was I offended when they stopped by the job to inspect our progress to to verify that in fact we were "doing what we said we would do"! In fact I encouraged it. It gave me the opportunity to demonstrate how I stood out over the other contractors and why my methods and materials were superior and why they should be confident in their choice of using me for their project. It always brought me MORE business not LESS.

Re: Transom/Stringers/Deck replacement. What questions should I be asking the shop?

YD, I definitely want to be sure it's being done right, but most of my interest is in just knowing what is actually being done and how for informational purposes. I don't have kids, but I feel a little like a parent must feel when they hand their kid over to a surgeon for an appendectomy or something. I know this guy's an expert, but she's my baby. So, it's not that I know better than him, but just that I want to know. Combine that with the fact that the mechanic I took it to came highly recommended by a friend but I've never seen or spoken to this fiberglass guy. So having my boat in the hands of someone else based solely on the fact that a guy my friend trusts trusts him does make me a little nervous (especially given the amount of cash on the line). That's all. It isn't doubt in his ability, more just general apprehension and fear that someone's cutting on my baby. I definitely appreciate your point about making sure he doesn't feel like I'm questioning his skill, ability, or integrity.

As far as the beer goes, I can't risk my reputation being seen purchasing Budweiser in public, so hopefully he likes something better or I'll have to get a friend to pick it up!

Add to that the fact that in the future, I want to do any work on her myself so I want to learn as much as possible about my boat and how she's put together.

Hopefully this helps you understand a little better where I'm coming from. Oh, and I saw your "Please ban me" post. I hope that doesn't actually happen, you seem useful, LOL.

Re: Transom/Stringers/Deck replacement. What questions should I be asking the shop?

Since there is great sentimental value here...do it yourself with family members help.

I just completed a transom repair/engine repair that I thought was way over my head. But with the help and advice from the forums, it became a do-able labor of love......

....with the proper amount of Kona Brewery Porter as lubricant.....

Re: Transom/Stringers/Deck replacement. What questions should I be asking the shop?

Russ, yeah, that's a thought for sure but it's been sitting for 10 years and I'm just not patient enough for that. I'll have a pro do it this time though since I've got the cash. From here on out I'm a DIYer for the most part. She should be ready to go in about 3 weeks!

P.S. - That Kona Porter sounds like an excellent lubricant. What mix ratio do you use?

Re: Transom/Stringers/Deck replacement. What questions should I be asking the shop?

sorry bud.....no three weeks at this time of season.

YD has given good advice.....YES to the beer......not at first.....but when they are ripping it apart...and then again later during the stringer rebuild.

BTW>>>>>>YD....labatts?......arent you in the states? our canadian beer can knock the socks off most south of the boarder people........for fun...try extra old stock. 5 of those and you will speak 9 languages fluently !...

you can ask them questions about limber holes and drainage to the bilge...and are they going to glass the under side of the deck.....exactally what you get for your money....(but watch out how you say it !) thats allowed......but if you are in the shop constantly looking over shoulders...wear butt pads when you pick up the boat.

as far as YD's suggestion about going the extra mile (freebies) ...this is very true. there are llttle things we can do to make your boat better or last a little longer with 20 mins extra work.....we will with who we like....but is we are being rushed by the coustomer.....nope///aint gonna happen !

cheers
oops

Re: Transom/Stringers/Deck replacement. What questions should I be asking the shop?

oops! said:

sorry bud.....no three weeks at this time of season.

YD has given good advice.....YES to the beer......not at first.....but when they are ripping it apart...and then again later during the stringer rebuild.

BTW>>>>>>YD....labatts?......arent you in the states? our canadian beer can knock the socks off most south of the boarder people........for fun...try extra old stock. 5 of those and you will speak 9 languages fluently !...

you can ask them questions about limber holes and drainage to the bilge...and are they going to glass the under side of the deck.....exactally what you get for your money....(but watch out how you say it !) thats allowed......but if you are in the shop constantly looking over shoulders...wear butt pads when you pick up the boat.

as far as YD's suggestion about going the extra mile (freebies) ...this is very true. there are llttle things we can do to make your boat better or last a little longer with 20 mins extra work.....we will with who we like....but is we are being rushed by the coustomer.....nope///aint gonna happen !

cheers
oops

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Well, The glass shop is pretty far away (about an hour from here) and they're only open during business hours so I'll be surprised if I can make it over there at all since I'd have to take off of work. I don't intend to rush them, I only said three weeks because I was told it would be ready in 3 to 4 weeks about a week and a half ago. I feel like maybe I came off wrong, so sorry about that. I'm just like bouncing up and down excited to be getting this boat back on the water, and simultaneously petrified that something's going to happen in the near future that puts her out of commission again and I won't be able to afford to fix it. Maybe since you guys are experts you could give me an idea of the quality of work I can expect given the estimate? He's doing transom, stringers, and deck for a total of $3645, $1100 dollars of which I already gave him for materials and supplies.

Re: Transom/Stringers/Deck replacement. What questions should I be asking the shop?

Oh, and by the way oops, I've read your entire Hull extension thread and was very impressed so I have a lot of respect for your work and your opinion. I guess my hope is that whoever is working on my boat is taking the kind of care that the people I've seen on here take with theirs.

Re: Transom/Stringers/Deck replacement. What questions should I be asking the shop?

Just my opinion here, but I doubt anyone will ever take the time and effort to invest "Blood, sweat and tears" into a customers boat, the same way you would do it yourself. I've not built, or re-built a boat until now, but I have made a stock 2001 Harley FatBoy into a show winner and reliable cross-country cruiser. I did it in my garage and learned along the way. I'm certain no shop would have taken the care to make every detail perfect like I did for myself.

An example is twisting, braiding and completely shrink wrapping the entire rear of the wiring harness before routing through custom bent and self-welded wiring tubes running along the inner length of the rear fender, injecting these tubes with silicone to further prevent any possible long-term chafing... So on and So forth, through every inch of the bike.

If you truly want it done right and beyond perfect. Do it yourself...