Bad Back

I had an MRI done and find I have two bulging discs and two herniated discs. I have been looking into laser spinal repair but have found this to be done only in a few cities in the US and I also find my insurance will not cover this procedure because it is out of network. The procedure is around $20 K and it is a week visit to one of the the cities that does the procedure so a week plus airfare is around another $2K. Anybody here have this procedure done to their back? I have lower back problem around the L4 L5 area and have issues down my left leg. I would prefer to do something non evasive like laser surgery instead of full back surgery. I am curious if anyone has had laser spine surgery done and if you feel it was the correct decision.

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Lower to middle back pain(24/7),pain down the leg,numbness in toes and top of foot,I feel your pain.I never heard of the laser but will do some research on it.I've been cut open 3 times now in last 7 yrs and each one only lasted maybe yr.Something to think of.

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Forgot to add the stabbing feeling in upper @ss cheek.

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http://www.mayoclinic.org/medical-edge-newspaper-2009/june-26a.html

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Last disk in the spine here.

Bulging, degenerating disc.

I took get the numbness tingling down the leg into my foot. Not to mention the muscle spasms in the back and the shooting pain that will bring you to your knees.

I had 1 cortisone shot, and will be going for another at the end of the month, The 1st one only lasted a month. After this we are going to evaluate and see what else there is.

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Euro...how long has it been going on, and if less than a year is it something where you can still function? One highly overlooked thing is finding an inversion table. It wont be any instant cure but it may help a lot. Target.com used to sell one and sometimes Fleet Farm has them for around $80. Those disc's are like a sponge and the inversion will help keep them hydrated and to some extent help suck the bulges back in. If you can live through the symptoms your body should eventually break down the herniated portions. Counter-intuitive but in most cases the bigger the herniation the quicker your body will break it down.

In my experience surgery does a lot better in cases where people have no back pain, just leg pain. Not saying surgery doesn't at times have it's benefits but there are some pitfalls in it.

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CobiaXL said:

Forgot to add the stabbing feeling in upper @ss cheek.

Click to expand...

A lot of times the upper arce cheek stabbing pain is actually bursitis caused by walking funny. Take a look at your feet when walking and see if that foot is pointing outwards like a penguin. If it is there's a good chance that's where your stabbing pain is coming from and that can be fixed with some pretty easy and very gentle stretching.

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Hope you guys don't mind me commenting a couple times on this one but hopefully it helps somebody out there.

With any disc the time to run, not walk, to the hospital is if you notice any unexplained changes in bowel or bladder function or progressive weakness. A couple good tests for weakness are standing on your heels or toes, and trying to lift up your big toes. Most discs will self resolve, at least as good as they're going to get, within 3-12 months......if you can stand the disc symptoms. Many times any back pain can be managed making that waiting period much easier to deal with.

The back pain and spasms are usually a secondary effect to the disc bulge or herniation, not the herniation itsself. It's a protective or splinting mechanism. In fact there are a lot of people with herniations/bulges out there that have no symptoms, the spasm is more coincidence. In either case that's where some good stretching can really help, especially in the morning and at night. I can try posting some pics if anybody is interested.

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I had an MRI done in March and I have two bulging discs and two herniated ones. Used to be an occasional what I called throwing my back out and I would list 10 degrees to port and the pain would normally be gone in less then a week. This winter the pain lasted for over 8 weeks. When doing physical therapy it changed to leg going numb. Soreness on the bottom of my left foot then became really bad spasms when I would bend a certain way. This would happen daily and the pain would last for about an hour then would happen again when I accidentally triggered it. I had the first epidural about 3 weeks ago but have talked to people who say usually the first one works the longest and repeat shots don't last as long. I have an appointment with my Dr to get a referral to a surgeon so I can get more information. Thanks for the link to the Mayo Roscoe. I guess if they don't endorse it I should look elsewhere. I cant come up with $20K anyways

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you could always sell the boat.

sorry, hope you feel better sooner rather than later.

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OH I hear ya on the pain thing, if I sit to long there is a nasty stabing pain behind my knee cap and leg starts to go to sleep.
Time to get a vist with the chiropractor I think.

(Syatec nerve??, thats the big one that runs down each leg???)

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I am a licensed Physical Therapist and I see numerous herniated disks and bulges with nerve symptoms daily. I recommended that before you allow anyone to cut on ya to trial PT. You'd be surprised at how much muscles work into pain. When you are in pain or injured ur muscles act like natural splints and perform what is called muscle guarding. Same thing happens after a car wreck with a whiplash type injury. What is happening is your muscles are keeping u in the most pain free position that they can find and then hunker down. All in all the body is an amazing thing and muscle guarding in beneficial and allows u to heal. But with chronic pain and prolonged guarding things can worsen. You will start to develop muscle spasms, tight muscles restrict movement, muscles can tighten and push on nerves causing tingling and numbness in lower extremities. A couple of muscles that I regard as the trouble makers are the piriformis which is deep in ur bottom and causes the Sciatic type symptoms that I saw being discussed. The other big player can be the quadratus laborum which is posterior lateral right above your hip bone. Daily stretching of just these muscles can reduce symptoms. Also when muscles tighten they tend to pull on the things they are attached to i.e. the pelvis. Many people i see with back pain have some sort of SI joint involvement which could be causing what is called a functional leg length difference. Your legs aren't actually different sizes but the rotation, obliqueing, of slip of pelvis can "functionally" shorten the leg causing pain and muscle spasms. I could go on for days but i HIGHLY recommend finding a good PT and trialing this before a knife ever touches your body. Just remember that once u cut there is no way to uncut. If you have any questions on what to ask a PT to check let me know. As always please check with your doctor before starting any new exercises


eurolarva:If you don't mind me asking what all are they doing with u in therapy? Did they screen for SI dysfunction? Have you had any traumatic accidents with legs at all? Any fracturing or slipping of vertebrae or just straight disk bulges? trial mechanical traction?

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Thanks Piece715, could you post the recomended streaches?

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These exercises are at risk only. I do not know anyone's imaging and other related issues. Please check with doctor before trialing to prevent injury or worsening of condition. I can not be held liable to any injuries. This informative purposes only. Thanks

We'll start with Quadratus Lumborum

The first two pictures are anatomical to show location

The last is the stretch that I usually hand out

Re: Bad Back

As CHiropractor I'll agree 100% with Piece. The other thing I would throw in is swollen facet joints on back of the spine, both are likely happening and both will act the same and cause the same pain and muscle splinting. There are lots of people that have surgery for discs only to find out their back pain doesn't go away, and about 20% of the population probably have disc herniations/bulges and don't know it. Surgeons love to see herniations on an MRI and say "well there's your problem, it's a herniation."

Assuming the back pain is the pain symptom that's bothering or limiting you the most, I tell people to address that first. Find a good chiro, pt or even massage thereapist willing to do ultrasound and muscle work. Never underestimate the healing powers of ice, especially at night. Stay off your stomach, and walking is usually good. Most often the nerve pain or numbness in the leg will follow the back pain, as it decreases so will the leg symptoms. And again, if you have changes in bowel or bladder function or weakness as I mentioned above, walk very quickly to the MD or ER.

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These exercises are at risk only. I do not know anyone's imaging and other related issues. Please check with doctor before trialing to prevent injury or worsening of condition. I can not be held liable to any injuries. This informative purposes only. Thanks

Next the Piriformis

First picture is location and radiating symptoms

Second is a light stretch for acute pain

Next is more aggressive stretch

Last is a compilation of different variations depending on tolerance

As with all stretching... a moderate stretch should be felt and held for 30 seconds 3x per side. Some soreness is normal post exercises because u are prob stretching muscles that A) dont want to be stretched 2) Haven't stretched in a while... Now if you spasm during ur stretch dont stop... stretch harder but with in tolerance... The muscle spasm is more than likely due to being guarded and not wanting to stretch so it hunkers down more... you have to break that cycle.

Personally i would also go ahead and throw in a general hamstring stretch as it attaches to the pelvis as well... very last pic

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Piece715 said:

These exercises are at risk only. I do not know anyone's imaging and other related issues. Please check with doctor before trialing to prevent injury or worsening of condition. I can not be held liable to any injuries. This informative purposes only. Thanks

We'll start with Quadratus Lumborum

The first two pictures are anatomical to show location

The last is the stretch that I usually hand out

Click to expand...

I also agree with Piece, for legal reasons, take this for what it is and not in place of advice of physicians you have seen and are directly familiar with your case.

On that note, what I tell my brother to do is in the morning upon waking: sometimes it works really well in bed to do pelvic tilts laying flat on his back in bed, leave his butt, shoulders and head flat with his knees bent and gently rock rock his pelvis back and forth being careful not to lift his back. Do it 15-20 times, then hit the snooze alarm and do it again in 7 minutes. Things generally like to swell up at night so I told him to ice it before sleeping.

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Thanks sublaux! Im sorry i didnt even see your post eariler... i was rushing trying to finish typing before seein the next patient... but I agree we are on the same page and I basically expanded on ur points... please feel free to correct or add anything u see... as everyone treats different. The SI self correction i will post is one of those things that i have only seen here at this location of the VA hospital. They are self correction techniques by Don Tigny. We use them here and have great success.

These exercises are at risk only. I do not know anyone's imaging and other related issues. Please check with doctor before trialing to prevent injury or worsening of condition. I can not be held liable to any injuries. This informative purposes only. Thanks

SI Self correction:

Each stretch should be at max held for 10-20 seconds
ALTERNATE sides when performing doing at least 3-4 per side

The first picture is the one i recommend doing before getting out of bed in a.m. The second picture is different variations. I personally like the standing with foot in chair as i feel it is the most aggressive. Keys to foot in chair: Foot in chair should be perpendicular to foot on ground. Reach for foot on ground with rotational stretch

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Thanks guys will give them a go, For myself
(not wanting to hijack this thread, but its along the same lines as the OP)

Sitting for long periods puts one heck of a jabbing pain behind the right leg knee cap area, and getting up at times it seizes (the knee/leg)

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Are you talking about the back side of the patella (knee cap) or the crease part of the back of ur leg (popliteal fossa)? Sitting for prolonged periods can cause the sciatica type symptoms... just because its nerve involvement does not mean it has to be a tingling sensation it can be straight pain.... If the pain starts near the hip and eventually makes its way to behind the knee i would say the stretching will do good... if the pain is just behind knee cap and hurts to move after sitting without moving for a while I would venture a guess it more than likely due to the wear of cartilage from the back of the patella. If thats the case not much to be done but try some heat.... now this is just a guess... u would need a evaluation to check patella tracking, muscle tone/definition, gait patterns, the whole thing... That the thing with the human body... just because ur pain is in ur knee doesnt mean that ur knee is the problem could be the hip or the foot and a hundred things in between