The Dambusters.

Kiwi Phil · Jun 13, 2011

We are talking about history here, so please, no one get stupid and get the thread closed.

You guys are probably not aware of the RAF 617 Squadron who, in 1943, became known as the Dambusters.
It was pretty cutting edge stuff for its time.
They flew I believe under 100' over the sea, and not much higher over land (England-Ruhr) in the dark
There was a heavy loss of life.
Awards were given, and the leader's dog, a black lab, was the Squadrons mascot.
He is buried at the airstrip the Squadron was based at. He is a famous dog.
A 1955 movie was made of it, and the theme song-march is very famous.
A NZ'er is making another movie about it, and you won't believe what PC is making them do!

http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/film/5136009/Dambusters-dog-bone-of-contention

http://www.raf.mod.uk/bombercommand/h617.html

Please!!

Cheers
Phillip

JoLin · Jun 13, 2011

Re: The Dambusters.

Seems to me we're talking about dramatizating an historic event for the purpose of entertaining a mass audience and turning a profit. The financial backers of the film understand that they won't make money by offending a large percentage of their intended market.

Unless you're saying that the movie is intended to be an entirely accurate documentary of the event, I'm sure it will contain more than one 'adjustment' of the historical record.

My .02

JB · Jun 13, 2011

Re: The Dambusters.

Of course the dog's name is embarrassing in the 21st Century, but his name was his name.

Far too much accurate information has been discarded or distorted when reporting history (Called, "based on a true story") in order to protect us from embarrassing TRUTH.

That uncomfortable word, and the uncomfortable TRUTH of it, was used commonly in the 1940s, by persons of color as well as others who had no idea of the insult it would become. It is history.

Maybe they should rename the film, "The Darn Breakers".

Grumble, grumble.

JoLin · Jun 13, 2011

Re: The Dambusters.

Bubba1235 said:
After seeing what they want to do to Mark Twain's books to make them more PC I guess there is nothing where the truth/history matters much. Sigh...

Can you explain that, Bubba? If you're saying that those books are being republished, in Twain's name, with all the 'offensive' language changed, I'd consider that outrageous.

JB- there's hardly been a movie made, ever, 'based on a true story', that wasn't changed to make it more marketable. The true historical record of The Dam Busters is obviously intact, so I'm not sure I understand the uproar. It's a movie. It's being produced to make money.

Changing history is one thing (I'm dead set against it). Entertainment is another.

Huron Angler · Jun 13, 2011

Re: The Dambusters.

Bubba1235 said:
After seeing what they want to do to Mark Twain's books to make them more PC I guess there is nothing where the truth/history matters much. Sigh...

I caught that segment of 60 minutes last night too.

JoLin-- They are publishing Mark Twain's works with words ommitted. It's part of an attempt to pretend nothing bad has ever happened anywhere on earth.

These kids are gonna have to learn on their own what true history is apparently.

PiratePast40 · Jun 13, 2011

Re: The Dambusters.

I don't think it's a bad thing that offensive language is removed from some movies. I realize that it'a a slipper slope and there needs to be a line drawn somewhere. But I'm thinking that in this case, it may be better to show the positive aspects of those brave men who flew the missions. Otherwise, the positive may be lost in the controversy. I think you have to choose which battles you want to fight.

Smuggler's Blues · Jun 13, 2011

Re: The Dambusters.

I know there are parts of our history that are not the best times to remember. However they are still part of our history. I dont have too much of a problem with the slight name change. As has been stated it is for entertainment. If they were to change the history books then yes I would have a problem with that. Also IMHO I wouldnt be surprised if Hollyweird created the contravercy just for the publicity. Just my $.02

JB · Jun 13, 2011

Re: The Dambusters.

I think it is downright hypocritical to pretend that our culture has never treated other cultures and other human beings in criminally inhumane manner.

Only by remembering the destruction of native cultures, lynchings, the imprisonment of American citizens only because of their heritage, the oppression of persons of color, oppression of women and oppression of persons because of their romantic orientation can our children and their children avoid repeating such crimes against humanity.

"Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it." Douglas MacArthur

JoLin · Jun 13, 2011

Re: The Dambusters.

The Twain articles are definitely examples of PC run amok. Thanks for sharing. I'm surprised (probably shouldn't be) and disgusted.

rbh · Jun 13, 2011

Re: The Dambusters.

13 canadian airmen died during that mission, hope they don't disney it.

Triton II · Jun 13, 2011

Re: The Dambusters.

I personally hate seeing this kind of PC, especially as I served with 617 Sqn (flying Tornado GR1s at the time, now GR4s) at RAF Marham. Most of the main Dambuster formation pilots were Australians either seconded to the RAF or RAAF "on loan". Colloquially known as "Six-Foot-Seven" the squadron history and the shere variety of nationalities who served on the squadron is fascinating. 617 went on to bomb the Tirpitz (an American pilot Flight Lieutenant John Leavitt took part in the raid and one of his Tallboy bombs was a direct hit). A huge piece of the Tirpitz's hull is bolted to the operation's room wall - it's bolted down so Nine Squadron doesn't steal it as they too claim to have sunk her!

Ahh, happy days... young, free and single and being paid to fly in Aunty Betty's Airlines. Sniff!

TII

Kiwi Phil · Jun 14, 2011

Re: The Dambusters.

I love hearing your stories TII, especially things like the piece of Tripitz and where it is now. Really good. Thank you.
Cheers
Phillip

aspeck · Jun 14, 2011

Re: The Dambusters.

+1 ^^^^^^^^^ (As I enjoy JB's stories and some of the other vets here that can bring history to life.)

royal0014 · Jun 14, 2011

Re: The Dambusters.

Always been a big fan of history. Can't always remember names, places, dates, but always love the stories....spend way too much time on wikipedia.

My Junior year of HS, the school hired a new History teach. Retired A.F. LtCol, who flew A-10 Warthogs in 'Nam. LOVED to tell war stories. Did not take much to get him off on a tangent, completly forgetting the lesson of the day

<<)))(((>>

Tim Frank · Jun 14, 2011

Re: The Dambusters.

royal0014 said:
Always been a big fan of history. Can't always remember names, places, dates, but always love the stories....spend way too much time on wikipedia.

My Junior year of HS, the school hired a new History teach. Retired A.F. LtCol, who flew A-10 Warthogs in 'Nam. LOVED to tell war stories. Did not take much to get him off on a tangent, completly forgetting the lesson of the day

<<)))(((>>

Which of course you and your fellow-students NEVER took advantage of....right...

lncoop · Jun 14, 2011

Re: The Dambusters.

aspeck said:
+1 ^^^^^^^^^ (As I enjoy JB's stories and some of the other vets here that can bring history to life.)

+2. You guys are treasures.

JB · Jun 14, 2011

Re: The Dambusters.

I hope you guys will understand my passion getting in high gear over a relatively minor topic.

I am at least a generation older than most of you and I grew up in the South during the depression and the worst racial hatred period of our history. I had to flee Jackson MS for my life in 1961 because of my "****** lover" attitudes. Having risked my life for my ideals they are even more precious to me.

If I have offended anyone, my apologies. That is who I am.

royal0014 · Jun 14, 2011

Re: The Dambusters.

Tim Frank said:
Which of course you and your fellow-students NEVER took advantage of....right...

No comment

<<)))(((>>

royal0014 · Jun 14, 2011

Re: The Dambusters.

JB said:
I hope you guys will understand my passion getting in high gear over a relatively minor topic.

I am at least a generation older than most of you and I grew up in the South during the depression and the worst racial hatred period of our history. I had to flee Jackson MS for my life in 1961 because of my "****** lover" attitudes. Having risked my life for my ideals they are even more precious to me.

If I have offended anyone, my apologies. That is who I am.

Must say I am surprised by that statement, Mr JB. Wouldn't have thought you to apologize. An additional insight to the character of the man. Cudos to you, sir.

<<)))(((>>

hrdwrkingacguy · Jun 14, 2011

Re: The Dambusters.

Our history was ugly, and I think when these stories are told in 50 or so years I think the coverup will be considered even uglier...Hollywood is doing a disservice by changing names and events to be more PC...If someone named their dog the N word, they should portray that person accurately in the movie so people can make their own decisions...Mabey he was racist or mabey he had another reason behind the name...You just can't pick out the parts of history that you agree with and cast the rest aside...Its not comfortable watching Schindler's list, but it is history(as far as I know)...George Carlin used to call it the pussification of our society and I completely agree...

The Dambusters.

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