'69 Evinrude Sportster 25 questions and more... I need your help.

Hello there,

This may be a little long-winded, but I would like to hear your opinions on a few or all of the questions that I have. If you want to skip the lengthy story, continue down to my questions. Please read and post, I would really appreciate it...

1) Story/Diagnostis

I recently purchased a '66 Fiberform 14' boat with a '69 Evinrude Sportster attached. It was a Craigslist deal i couldn't refuse. $600 for boat/trailer (titled and registered with a year left on tabs for both) and motor. Was told that the motor ran great and it came with extras (new gas tank, new battery, hitch ball and lock, bumpers and more) so i got it. I gave it a quick over, changing lower unit oil (no water or metal, always a plus), compression check, grease/lube, some new gas...etc, everything looked good. I brought the boat out the next day and got it in the water. It started up pretty quickly, got it off the trailer and was off. I let it warm up a bit, listened, sounded good. I slowly made my way to the no wake zone buoys. Once out of the no wake zone I figured it was time to check this baby out. Got it in gear, eased on the throttle, then "Clunk", it popped out of gear with some grinding (motor still going, no prop movement). Hmm, that's odd, so i really eased on the throttle and it did it again, Dammit! Had to completely shut down the motor in order to get it to re-engage into forward. Went out, got the manual and proceeded with the teardown. At this point, I'm hoping at best that it's just a worn clutch dog, and not the forward gear. There was engagement under low loads/speeds, and broke loose a little over 1/4 throttle. Got the lower unit drained and off, no metal shavings (again, a plus). I went to remove the lower housing and of course, the previous owner stripped the head on one of the flat-head screws/bolts. Now I have to find a way to remove the stripped fastener. I have basic hand tools, but not anything to take care of this, not even a drill. I tried an impact driver, but it just broke a couple #3 flat-head bits and I kinda gave up for now.

2) QUESTIONS

a) Was this a good deal? Would you have bought or walked?
b) How would you go about removing the stripped lower housing bolt?
c) Do you have any experience working with these motors (lower unit)?
d) Is this a clutch dog problem or worse, dreaded forward gear ($600 replacement), or something completely different?
e) Do you have a lower unit (or lower unit parts) in working order that you would like to sell? (Any '69-'70, 18-20-25 hp evinrude?)
f) I have hull specific paint, but I want to go with a blue on top, What kind of paint (type and brand) would you use?
g) What are the 3 oar-lock looking mounts on the port side of the transom (see pics)? Swim step, kicker mount?
h) One of the spark plugs looks cross threaded, is it cheaper to have it/them re-machined or find a used/replacement head?
i) Any comments on the things I should look at/do/fix/renovate?
j) Opinions?

Re: '69 Evinrude Sportster 25 questions and more... I need your help.

A) If you are happy with the deal, then it is a good deal.
B) Sometimes a little heat and then the impact driver.
C) Have had quite a few, repaired a lot of them.
D) It sounds like a clutch dog problem, check the "Top Secret File" for salvage yards, can save some money sometimes.
E) Personally, no. Check salvage yards.
F) Sorry, can't help you with paint.
G) Looks like maybe a ladder or kicker brackets.
H) A machine shop could probably install a heli-coil for you.
I) You might want to think about a water pump if you haven't already done it.
J) You might think about getting a factory manual, well worth the money if you are going to maintain your engine.

Re: '69 Evinrude Sportster 25 questions and more... I need your help.

Thanks for the reply Daviet. I've been applying penetrating lube for days now, tried some heat with a much sturdier impact drive bit, but the slot is too far gone. Not sure what I'm gonna try next. I just need to get this one frozen bolt off to assess the damage and see if it's even worth keeping the motor. So what now? Drill the head of the bolt and worry about drilling the rest out if it is just a clutch dog or should I try a left handed extractor bit and remove the entire bolt? I don't want to go and buy the bits, but I guess they are always useful. Waterpump is def on the list, but I need to figure out if the motor is worth keeping or not before I put any money into it (i.e. clutch dog vs. forward gear). Anyone else with any advice on removing the bolt? Anyone know a rough cost to get heli-coils? Also, can anyone else tell me what those brackets are for? I would like to have a kicker mount on the brackets, any ideas? I appreciate any input, thanks!

Re: '69 Evinrude Sportster 25 questions and more... I need your help.

Would have to concur with Daviet^. Can you take a die grinder with a cutting disc and make a straight groove for a slotted impact driver to fit? Just a thought? This was one of my first outboards I ever owned. I used to live in Southern California way back when near lake Elsinore. During the summer months, I was out every weekend. That motor and lower unit never gave me a bit of problems. I would repair it and put in back in to service if it was mine. If you want to get rid of it, pm me and let me know! Good luck and post back to let us know how you make out!

Re: '69 Evinrude Sportster 25 questions and more... I need your help.

Thanks for the info Monte1961, I haven't talked to anybody that owns, has owned, or even anyone that's used this motor. I've read nothing but good things about the Sportster 25 in a handful of threads and it's nice to hear more. Part of the reason that I started this thread was to get in touch with previous owners/users and learn about the ins/outs, quirks and the adjustments that this motor requires. What are your previous experiences? Please post if you can remember anything specific that you did to maximize power and longevity, beside obvious general maintenance (frequent: flushing, lower unit oil check/change, lube, waterpump). Are there any parts or problems that I should check or keep an eye on? I would like to hear you or anyone's thoughts. About the bolt though, I unfortunately don't own a die grinder, just your basic hand tools. The head of the bolt was torn apart with that harder driver bit and is now too recessed to fit a grinder in there without damaging the housing. It seems like some pretty soft hardware if you ask me, but I guess that they are just cover bolts and weren't meant to handle heavy torque loads (hence the slot instead of a hex, right?) I'm beginning to wonder if the extractor bit will even work because of the softness and small amount of material left. The bolt was pretty bad when I first looked at it, but I'm afraid it's even worse now. I attached pics, let me know what you think. I will probably be stuck drilling it out either way, but we'll see. Should be attempting that in a few days, but I'll def keep it posted.

Re: '69 Evinrude Sportster 25 questions and more... I need your help.

DO NOT use a screw extractor!!! Yes, I'm shouting. You break that screw extractor in there and you are all done.

I suggest you take that thing to a machine shop and have them mill the head off. The screw probably will come out easy once the head is off. EDIT: Oops, that was crappy advice. He can't get it in the milling machine till the shift rod is removed and you can't remove the shift rod till it is apart.

If it is jumping out of gear at such low throttle, you can bet the farm that the forward gear is shot. Anything less is dream world.

#3) on your list: 24 years as a full time professional outboard technician in an Evinrude dealership. That good enough? I would get that screw out, but it would take skill and patience.......and risk. Be careful with it, I've seen more than one with the gearcase broken. It's pretty thin around that screw.

Re: '69 Evinrude Sportster 25 questions and more... I need your help.

Without buying more tools, it's time to enlist the help of a machine shop, or a buddy that does have more tools. It's going to need to be
drilled out and at this point, there's no way I'd give up on it. You might get lucky and it be the clutch dog, but I've got the same sinking feeling that F_R has; acts like a defunked forward gear.

Re: '69 Evinrude Sportster 25 questions and more... I need your help.

a) Was this a good deal? Would you have bought or walked? Not a bad looking boat. The 25 of that vintage is a good motor.
b) How would you go about removing the stripped lower housing bolt? I used a punch and a hammer to get those kind of screws out, but you have to know how to angle the punch and how to aim that hammer, or you'll make a bigger mess
c) Do you have any experience working with these motors (lower unit)? I have own several of those 22 cube twins and have worked on many more. 19 years experience on the old Johny/Rude twins
d) Is this a clutch dog problem or worse, dreaded forward gear ($600 replacement), or something completely different? If you shop right, you can get an excellent lower unit, complete, for $100 or less. If you're partial to keeping your original, then just replace the innards on yours, from the replacement.
e) Do you have a lower unit (or lower unit parts) in working order that you would like to sell? (Any '69-'70, 18-20-25 hp evinrude?) Nope
f) I have hull specific paint, but I want to go with a blue on top, What kind of paint (type and brand) would you use? Paint should be obtained at most boat repair shops, or marine supply.
g) What are the 3 oar-lock looking mounts on the port side of the transom (see pics)? Swim step, kicker mount? Not sure
h) One of the spark plugs looks cross threaded, is it cheaper to have it/them re-machined or find a used/replacement head? Again, try the salvage yards listed in the Top Secret Files You might be better off, replacing the head, versus repairing it. It's all a matter of research.
i) Any comments on the things I should look at/do/fix/renovate? Does it appear that this motor has had a lot of salt water use? If so, then I can see why the screw head is an issue. The motor is a good reliable model though. I would go completely through it and see that it's tuned up right and enjoy the heck out of it.
j) Opinions?

Re: '69 Evinrude Sportster 25 questions and more... I need your help.

I have the same motor and it had the same problem, long story short I found another LU and bolted it on w/ new impeller and it has worked great so far. I am running it on a 69 14 ft Alumacraft and it goes like a SOB. We should keep in touch b/c I want to pull the flywhell off and install new plug wires (not sure if I have to do that to get new ones on), points, etc. BTW also put a new fuel pump in. Also came across a spare LU that looks exactly like the one in the pick and I did exactly what F_R said not to , snapped a screw extraxtor off. I have another 76 25 hp as well that died unexpectedly so thats where my LU came from. IN total I have 3 LUs and 2 25 hp rudes. BTW a 79-69 LU all fit. Let me know how things go so we can learn from each others successes/ mistakes.

Re: '69 Evinrude Sportster 25 questions and more... I need your help.

SUCCESS!!!! I finally got that damn bolt out! Even though some of you said not to use the extractor, I decided to try it anyway (why couldn't I just listen to you wise minds?). I was afraid of breaking the extractor off, so I didn't drill the pilot hole very deep. Of course, the thing snapped like a toothpick, but luckily it wasn't very deep. It took a good half hour to get the extractor out, but it came out clean. I then just took a 3/8 drill bit and removed the head of the bolt. As I was drilling and clearing out the metal shavings I noticed some foreign material. It looked as if the previous owners put some sort of thread seal or adhesive on the bolt (where the bolt head meets the cover, not in the actual threads) and that's why it was such a pain. Got the head of the bolt removed and cover off though. I was planning on using pliers/channel-locks/vise-grip to remove the remaining bolt (after the cover was removed there was about a 1/2 inch of the shank of the bolt sticking out of the housing) but for some reason it came out by hand, literally 2 fingers, WTF! Must have been the sealant adhesive I'm guessing. Got it all disassembled and inspected though. Everything looks a lot better than I was expecting. It would appear that the forward gear dog ear has very minimal wear and that the clutch dog ears are much more worn. The forward gear dog ears are still pretty close to square, they are ever so slightly rounded. I have posted pics, they may not be the clearest, but take a close look see (first two should be forward gear, second two should be clutch dog). I really don't want to have to replace the forward gear (stock replacement $600!?) and I was wondering if a just a new clutch dog would suffice. Is it worth the gamble on a $60 clutch dog and hoping that it fixes the problem or should I wait to find the gear or a replacement lower unit? I'd really like to replace just the clutch dog, but don't want to have the same problem as before, or even worse, grenade the lower unit. I'd really like to hear what you think, let me know, thanks!

Re: '69 Evinrude Sportster 25 questions and more... I need your help.

I think the clutch dog is done, maybe you could try and dress up the edges of the forward gear a little.
Maybe try some salvage yards and see what is available used.

Re: '69 Evinrude Sportster 25 questions and more... I need your help.

Not CD-23D its a CD-24D thanks Paul

Re: '69 Evinrude Sportster 25 questions and more... I need your help.

How would you go about dressing up the dog ear(s) on the forward gear? Machine shop? Would this weaken the gear at all? I've been looking around at some salvage yards and other parts distributors but just haven't found anything that's in my price range. I wouldn't mind spending a little to have it machined, def cheaper than getting a new (or even used one for that matter). Anybody else recommend machining or just replace? I'm gonna try to get some better pics posted here soon so you can see the ears on the forward gear and tell me what you think.

Re: '69 Evinrude Sportster 25 questions and more... I need your help.

In my opinion, you'd be better off IF IF IF you could find a machine shop that does work for an outboard repair shop and get them to machine your forward gear ears and possibly even the clutc dog, or just buy a NOS clutch dog and forward gear and give that a shot. However, if you go with a new forward gear, you could have a little gear whine since the pinion won't be matched to it. I personally don't think machining the gear ears will ruin the temper on them, but I could be wrong.
Basically, a new clutch dog won't solve the problem for very long, I don't believe. That forward gear ear is rounded pretty badly.
Good luck,
JBJ

Re: '69 Evinrude Sportster 25 questions and more... I need your help.

How long are we talking? Maybe a season if babied? Two trips out? Just kinda curious here. I think that I am going to buy the clutch dog, and bring the entire assembly (prop shaft, reverse gear, clutch dog and forward gear) in to a machine shop. I will have them machine the ears on the forward and reverse gears. Then engage the clutch dog ears on the forward gear ears and check with plasti-guage to ensure that engagement is the same between each set of ears. I'm hoping that this should cost less than getting a used one, yet act like a new one, but we'll see. Anybody have a similar experience? What do you think?

Re: '69 Evinrude Sportster 25 questions and more... I need your help.

I'd get a new clutch dog and give it a try. Is the reverse gear better than the forward gear? I'm not sure on those motors if you can switch forward for reverse. Usually reverse gets less wear than forward.

Re: '69 Evinrude Sportster 25 questions and more... I need your help.

Reverse gear is better, but I don't think that they are interchangeable. I'm def getting the clutch dog and both gears machined. I'm gonna call around and see if I can get some prices, or if it's even possible. Does anyone know if the forward and reverse gears are able to swap?

Re: '69 Evinrude Sportster 25 questions and more... I need your help.

Hallelujah! After a little bit of searching, I finally found someone to machine the parts. I called a few local outboard retailers, but most didn't seem interested in the old evinrude. One lady made me feel like I was crazy for even thinking that the parts could be machined. "Good luck finding a shop that will want to touch that considering the tolerances involved!" is what she told me. Really? Any professional machine shop should be working with much smaller tolerances than those acceptable in my near antique outboard. Anyway, if you ever need any new/used parts, or even some machining, get in touch with Tom's Outboard. Not only were more than happy to help with machining the forward gear ears (which they do quite often from what they told me) but had many used and re-manufactured quality parts as well as complete re-manned LU's for around $300. They even worked a deal on the shipping for me. I can't explain how much of a relief it is to do everything in one place. I send them the forward gear, they machine it with respect to a new clutch dog and send it all back, including the new clutch dog, impeller kit, gasket kit and new bolts for less than $200 while I sit on the couch. I highly recommend these guys for any of your needs.

Toms Outboard (360)-754-3882
http://tomsoutboard.com/

Re: '69 Evinrude Sportster 25 questions and more... I need your help.

gfakkema! Congratulations on your find. However I have some questions. Have you ever worked with this company before? 2. Have you received these parts back yet? 3rd. Have you installed them yet? 4th. Do they work right? 5th. Are you satisfied? In an earlier post you asked if I had any problems with my old 25hp sportster? The answer is no unless hitting rocks with lower unit counts?! Dam thing just didn't stand up to that! But on the serious side, I loved that model. If one ever come along my way again, I would sure pick it up even if it cost me a left testi if you know what I mean!? I look forward to hearing how you make out. Post back and let us know!