Vertical Shift Shaft reattach John50 1975 cannot align bolt with hole

I removed lower unit to replace impeller and when I reassembled it I am having trouble reinserting the bolt into the hole in the top of the vertical shift shaft rod. Its like it is misalligned and not hitting the hole . When I move the control to forward the bolt will screw in but not go into the shaft hole and then I cannot shift it into reverse. Pretty sure I aligned it properly when I reinstalled the lower unit and I don't remember what position the shift control was in when I removed it. I think reverse?
Is there a proper procedure for aligning the shaft hole with the bolt to be able to hit the hole and screw it in? put the shift control in forward? reverse? neutral. The prop shaft does not turn in the current situation with the bolt unattached. ? Is there a way to see the top of the shift lever by taking off the plate at the top of the engine just under the carbs and bottom case near the top of the shift rod?

I am thinking of getting someone to slowly change the shift control position a little at a time while I push the bolt in at these intervals. Whatdoyathink?

Re: Vertical Shift Shaft reattach John50 1975 cannot align bolt with hole

take it loose from the shift cable - itll make life ALOT easier....put it back on when your done
you could take the starter off and the bolts right there but try it with the cable off first

Re: Vertical Shift Shaft reattach John50 1975 cannot align bolt with hole

That can be very frustrating and tricky. The trick is like levi said. Disconnect the shift cable, then you can reach around and move the control as you line up the bolt.

Re: Vertical Shift Shaft reattach John50 1975 cannot align bolt with hole

thanks , that really makes since. I am assuming that I remove it from the shift cable so I , at the motor, can move it myself without someone moving the shifter at the stern? And I already decided as you suggested to remove the starter to gain more access to the shift cable bolt. That bolt is a bear to insert and screw in without removing the starter.
One other question, Is there any way to know when the bolt goes through the shift cable hole, or is it just trial and error, screw it in and move the shift cable and turn the prop to see if it is engaging? because I have been able to screw it all the way in a couple of times but it still didn't hit the hole.
Also, when the shift cable is in neutral , the prop will move freely, correct? and in forward and reverse it will not turn freely? sounds stupid on my part but just want to make sure. thanks again.

Re: Vertical Shift Shaft reattach John50 1975 cannot align bolt with hole

yea take the cable loose at the motor the linkage will flop all around easily
once you get the shift rod back on-
to adjust ths shift cable leave it off the motor , find the center were the linkage on the motor has play- spin the prop by hand linkage should move an inch or so without going into gear -find the center of that play now VERY CAREFULLY without moving the linkage adjust the shifter cable so that it slides into the groove AND onto the linkage WITHOUT moving the linkage this will center you up and it should shift fine if you do this

Re: Vertical Shift Shaft reattach John50 1975 cannot align bolt with hole

I Removed starter for better access (as suggested) to be able to access/turn bolt that goes into shift shaft hole , had wife move shift control to where it seemed the bolt was lining up with shift shaft hole, could feel it rubbing against bolt in this position, (in reverse, about half way between neutral and full reverse on the shifter) , but the bolt wont screw in to go through the shift shaft hole. So to determine if the hole is there, I got a long finish nail, used it in place of the bolt, and at the same place in reverse, the smaller finish nail will go through what I think is the hole, because I can then shift forward a little , about 1/4 inch, shifting , using the shift control at the wheel, until the nail stops the shifter (cant remove the nail it is so tight), and then in reverse about 1/4 inch until the nail loosens and then tightens again (as it is shifted more into reverse) as if the nail is in the hole and stopping further movement and I didnt want to put much pressure on it for fear of bending the shift shaft. So it seems the nail will go in the hole, cant see it of course , but I am assuming that its in the hole, but the large headed bolt that I need to use, will not engage the hole and allow me to screw it in. However, I can screw the bolt in with the shift control in forward , probably because bolt is above or to side of shift shaft hole and not near hole, I am thinking maybe the shift shaft is twisted a little sideways and the larger bolt is hitting the side of the hole preventing the bolt from going into the hole
What do you think I should try now?
My thoughts are to 1. remove lower unit and see if shift shaft has turned 180 degrees, and if it has turn around to proper position, and reinsert lu and try to insert bolt again , or if shift shaft is in proper position and hasnt rotated, see if i can move shift shaft with my hand up or down into reverse , neutral, forward with lu removed and reposition shaft up or down in a diff position to see if bolt will be easier to engage at that position upon reinserting lu. or 2. Remove exhaust housing cover (at top front of exhaust housing) to see top of shift shaft (dont know whats behind this cover or if I can see shift shaft, or 3. maybe with my fingers rotate middle of shift shaft (the part about 2 inches you can see outside of the motor at the front middle of the motor as it goes up into top when inserting lu, if that is what it is ?, as I screw in bolt, while twisting it a little , to square up hole or 4. remove shift cable so I can move shifter easier as previously suggested , instead of having wife use shift control to move (I didnt remove shift cable as I didnt want to complicate things further by having to readjust the cable also). or 5. a combination of serveral of these, or 6? what else can I do? and what would you do? Any help will be appreciated. Thanks to you, patrick, levi , who have helped already.

Re: Vertical Shift Shaft reattach John50 1975 cannot align bolt with hole

put your finshing nail in the hole and shift it into forward that should give you better access you can also take the lower carb off to give yourself even more room
i aways, when i drop a lower shift it into forward before i take that bolt out and before i put the lower unit back in i make sure that the shift rod is pulled all the way out -it may have pushed back in when you put it back up there

Re: Vertical Shift Shaft reattach John50 1975 cannot align bolt with hole

i had same issue when i did mine this winter. didnt notice that the shift rod turned 180 on me.. get a pair of long needle nose and just sneak in where you can see rod and get it to forward. make sure lever on control is in forward.. that will get it to the top most and easiest to get bolt in.. if bolt does not go in easy, you are probably 180 off.. so just use them handy little needle nose and shift the rod to reverse, so not to hit the clevis that it connects to and spin it 180. bring the shift rod back up to forward position and see if bolt will go in easy.. i got the bolt in backwards. but was hard and shift lever would not work right.. try this, im no expert , but this is what i have had happen to me and what i did to fix..

you should only have to take starter off to get that bolt in.. get a short socket 1/4 " drive (i belive its a 7/16 headed bolt), short extension and even a wobley would help, but that socket will bottom out the bolt head and will give you leverage to get the bolt started. good luck

Re: Vertical Shift Shaft reattach John50 1975 cannot align bolt with hole

levi_tsk said:

put your finshing nail in the hole and shift it into forward that should give you better access you can also take the lower carb off to give yourself even more room
i aways, when i drop a lower shift it into forward before i take that bolt out and before i put the lower unit back in i make sure that the shift rod is pulled all the way out -it may have pushed back in when you put it back up there

Click to expand...

Thanks for replying. do I understand you to say , I insert the finishing nail
into the hole in the top of the shift rod ( what I believe it to be going into the hole, which by the way, is aligned to the hole when the shift control is between the neutral and full reverse position) , and with the nail in the shift rod hole, (using it as if it were the bolt, move the shift rod with the shift control to the forward position, which will vertically raise the shift rod. By the way as I recall when I removed the shift rod bolt , before dropping the lu , the shifter was in the reverse about half way between neutral and reverse, about the same position where the nail will go in now. So , your suggestion makes since , as I should have, when I first removed the bolt , put it into forward like you always do and I surely will try to do for future lu removal, smart suggestion. Is my above interpretation of your instructions correct?

Re: Vertical Shift Shaft reattach John50 1975 cannot align bolt with hole

thanks for the reply, Is this the vertical shift shaft , visible from the side of the motor , and between the lower unit and exhaust housing , that you can see about 2 inches clearance, where I can grab with needle nose pliers and rotate 180 or move up or down vertically to shift or move it into forward or reverse without the bolt screwed into the hole in the top of the shift shaft and without removing the lower unit. see pics Also , is there any way to positively know if the shift rod has been turned 180 in the wrong direction, without having to remove the lu, or do you just turn it and use trial and error again to insert the bolt.

Re: Vertical Shift Shaft reattach John50 1975 cannot align bolt with hole

if you take the lower carb off youll be able to see if its in the slot if its in the slot its not spun around - it can happen and im pretty sure if you DID have it spun around it wouldnt go in the hole AT all and you wouldnt be able to put the lower unit on
youre WAY over thinking it man.. put the nail in the hole and shift it into forward itll pull the rod up ... take the shift cable loose from the linkage it wont affect the adjustment you CAN NOT do this job easily with the cable still hooked up

wiggle the shift linkage around until the bolt goes in the hole thread it in hook everything back up and your done
dont over think it its an easy job

Re: Vertical Shift Shaft reattach John50 1975 cannot align bolt with hole

thanks for your patients, you are absolutely correct, I am over cautious sometimes, but I also misinterpret things easily and wanted clarification.. just dont want to break anything and just needed some reassurance. I ll first try inserting the nail to pull the rod up to forward and then the bolt. I did pull carb and starter.

Re: Vertical Shift Shaft reattach John50 1975 cannot align bolt with hole

yeah if you look in that groove just below the carb flange you can see the shift linkage and when you pull the rod up with the nail everything will be right there just behind the groove

Its done, and Im stupid

Its done, and Im stupid

thanks all. I thought , assumed , without, looking closely at the shift cam, and top of the shift rod , that I could not see the top of the shift rod and hole at all, and that it was under, the motor housing and unable to be seen or touched. I finally looked at the top of the shift rod , and da, I can see the top of the shift rod and hole and da , can look at it and line it up. Took a screw driver, pushed the rod forward, positioned the cam bolt hole , with the control shifter, near the rod hole and da, it screwed in. Yesterday , I was trying to do it blind , not knowing the rod hole was visible to me. thanks all for your help. Couldnt of done it without you. Its back together , working as it should, now on to reinstalling rebuilt carbs to see if its going to go. Its been sitting 10 years. Im sure Ill be asking more stupid questions. Much love to all

Re: Its done, and Im stupid

Re: Its done, and Im stupid

make sure you pull and replace ALL the core plugs on those carbs or youll be back on here asking questions quite shortly

glad you got it back together though

Re: Its done, and Im stupid

Re: Its done, and Im stupid

levi_tsk said:

make sure you pull and replace ALL the core plugs on those carbs or youll be back on here asking questions quite shortly

glad you got it back together though

Click to expand...

thanks , I wasnt going to do that, just replace the high and low jets, carb cleaner on carbs and bowl, and new gaskets . wasnt going to do new bowl needle or plugs, but sounds like I need to do new plugs and spray it out inside before reinstalling plugs. Does that sound ok. ?

Re: Its done, and Im stupid

Re: Its done, and Im stupid

take EVERYTHING out and off thecab and geta can of dip at advance autoparts its about 20 bux make sure you get full BRP carb kits the rest are garbage BRP part number you want is 396701 ebay has em for about 25 bux each theyre worth EVERY penny

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/John...2052653QQptZBoatQ5fPartsQ5fAccessoriesQ5fGear

did you rebuild the fuel pump?

Re: Its done, and Im stupid

Re: Its done, and Im stupid

I have the entire fuel pump rebuild kit, but only replaced the outer rubber flat gasket with the holes in it, next to the filter screen and the fuel inlet thinking that if it aint broke, dont fix it. . Should I use all the gaskets and replace all of them.?

Re: Its done, and Im stupid

Re: Its done, and Im stupid

yea man do it all or suffer the consequences lol anything worth doing is worth doing right the first time. that one isnt that hard though, just take your time - i hope you got the BRP kit with the instructions??

if not i have em i JUST so happen to have the kit for my engine

Re: Its done, and Im stupid

Re: Its done, and Im stupid

I just looked on ebay for that kit brp you mentioned, yes about $25 with shipping but it didnt list the individual parts, so ask them to send me list. I also am planning on replacing jets , low and highspeed, even though the old ones look ok. I do however have two johnson carb rebuild kits, but they dont have the floats or needles included. also , will you check out this picture of my rusty coils. the metal is rusty , but the coil gel and plastic look brand new. I havent tested them yet. Do you think the rust will affect the performance or should I replace both?