1984 force 85 outboard hard to start after its been shut down

shadow7g · May 22, 2011

First off, i would like to say, thanks to those who helped me on my other issues. We took her out yesterday and today for the first time in over 3 years. Now im having an issue. The first time the boat starts up it seems to start up OK, i still have to start it a few times for it to keep idling. After its been ran and shut down is when it REALLY starts to act up. It takes me a couple of minutes to get it running and when i put it in gear it will shut down and start to bog a little, after a few times i get it up and going. I brought it home and richened up the idle screws 1/4 turn and it fired right up in my yard. Anything else to look for? Im under the assumption that the fuel needles were a little lean and it caused that problem. Ill get to work on whatever you guys suggest. Ill give you guys a run down of what i did before the boat went in the water:

Replace cdi box
replaced ignition trigger
set timing to 28 degrees at WOT
synced the carbs
cleaned the carbs
replaced all fuel lines
made sure the reed valves werent stuck open
new primer bulb

pnwboat · May 22, 2011

Re: 1984 force 85 outboard hard to start after its been shut down

Have you looked the fuel pump diaphragm? If it's distorted or stiff from age it might be time to change it.

shadow7g · May 22, 2011

Re: 1984 force 85 outboard hard to start after its been shut down

I forgot to mention that i replaced that as well.

healey8390 · May 22, 2011

Re: 1984 force 85 outboard hard to start after its been shut down

Take the cylinder drain covers off, they are L shaped, about 4 inches long and have small hoses connected to them. They let unburned fuel out of the cyl and the screens can get clogged, letting gas pool up in the cyls making it rich. Clean them if theyre clogged and don't freak out if the screen pops out you can just put it back in thats how they are. Can't promise you that it will solve the problem but it's a good starting point assuming you have good spark and compression.

shadow7g · May 22, 2011

Re: 1984 force 85 outboard hard to start after its been shut down

The spark is nice and blue. Before i replaced the trigger and cdi box it was a little weak looking. I havent checked compression but i can say this engine runs so smooth other than this issue. It will do 33 mph with 3 people and about 200 lbs of equipment and we arent small people. When it starts and runs it will run flawlessly at any rpm range. Idk what this issue is but im almost positive its not compression. She is just a gas guzzler lol.

shadow7g · May 23, 2011

Re: 1984 force 85 outboard hard to start after its been shut down

Any other things to look for?

foodfisher · May 23, 2011

Re: 1984 force 85 outboard hard to start after its been shut down

Ideally, RPM's at idle, in gear, in water (lake etc.) not ears, should be 750<850. Approx. 1,000 RPM's on ear muffs.

shadow7g · May 23, 2011

Re: 1984 force 85 outboard hard to start after its been shut down

I believe my idle is right. The initial start for the day is perfect and it doesnt shut off. I did take the boat out today after adjusting the idle screws another 1/4 turn. I ran it for about 45 minutes straight and came back to the dock, shut it down and waited 5 minutes before i restarted. It fired up within 30 seconds. I had to prime the bulb again. Im thinking its either a carb issue or vapor lock. If its vapor lock what suggestions do you guys have? I was thinking about drilling some extra breathing holes in the engine cover to let the heat out and the air in. It seems as if the stock setup doesnt allow for much cooling.. IDK. Whenever i get paid this friday im going to order a new impeller kit and 3 carb rebuild kits. I didnt check the float levels when i had the carbs off so that could be another issue. The needles and seats were fine though. I wonder if i can get away with using rubber o-rings to seal the fuel bowls and aluminum or copper crush washers to seal the nuts that hold them on there. THat seems like a better setup to me because cork is porous.

healey8390 · May 23, 2011

Re: 1984 force 85 outboard hard to start after its been shut down

If you had the carbs apart before thats definately a good idea to check the float level, holding it upside down float should go strait out, paralell whith the surface that the bowl mates with. Don't get too crazy with the idle screws, 7/8-1 turn out from seated is baseline. Sounds like this is on its way to being a stumper. Did you take off the cyl drain covers yet to see if the screens are clogged? What do the spark plugs look like? Mabye it has a worn head gasket or excessive carbon buildup. Also, on mine the carbs have what looks like a "air jet" on the outside, brown color with hole in it, can get clogged by dirt. See if yours has them. If your looking at the carbs facing the stern of the boat, it will be on the right side of the carb, pretty much centered and toward where it mounts. Just a possibility.

shadow7g · May 24, 2011

Re: 1984 force 85 outboard hard to start after its been shut down

healey8390 said:
If you had the carbs apart before thats definately a good idea to check the float level, holding it upside down float should go strait out, paralell whith the surface that the bowl mates with. Don't get too crazy with the idle screws, 7/8-1 turn out from seated is baseline. Sounds like this is on its way to being a stumper. Did you take off the cyl drain covers yet to see if the screens are clogged? What do the spark plugs look like? Mabye it has a worn head gasket or excessive carbon buildup. Also, on mine the carbs have what looks like a "air jet" on the outside, brown color with hole in it, can get clogged by dirt. See if yours has them. If your looking at the carbs facing the stern of the boat, it will be on the right side of the carb, pretty much centered and toward where it mounts. Just a possibility.

Yea, i made sure the extra jets werent clogged. I believe those are jets for different altitude? I havent leaned my fuel mixture screws at all. I had to richen them up so they arent but like 1 1/2 turn out. I know lean is bad ;-). Im going to pull the drain covers off today and see if they are clogged. If not, i guess im going to wrap my fuel lines in aluminum foil just to rule out the possibility of vapor lock...

exp2000 · May 24, 2011

Re: 1984 force 85 outboard hard to start after its been shut down

Sorry to hijack the thread, but problems that you describe are EXACTLY like mine with 90HP (1997) Force. I have screws 1 turn out, I have rebuild carbs, rebuilt pump, changed all hoses, rpms are ok, starts right up, will run for hour without any problems on WOT, but if I turn it of, it will start after 2-3 tries, but than half way to WOT it will stall, have to try several times to get to WOT, sometimes just have to open it very quickly and than it takes of like a plane. So, does mine have these drain covers too? Oh, another issue is that I noticed is that primer bulb will get rock hard initially, but later on it will not, once the engine is hot.

shadow7g · May 24, 2011

Re: 1984 force 85 outboard hard to start after its been shut down

Sounds exactly like my issue. Lmk what u come up with

exp2000 · May 24, 2011

Re: 1984 force 85 outboard hard to start after its been shut down

I found in one other thread something about "fuel re-circulation check valve" being stuck causing it to flood cylinders. In another thread I found something about needle being overpowered with pressure and causing it again to flood the cylinder with gasoline. If you get your fixed let me know.

shadow7g · May 24, 2011

Re: 1984 force 85 outboard hard to start after its been shut down

my overfill barb fitting was clogged. Just went outside and did some testing. It had some crud in it. Now im able to blow and pull air from the overflow hose. IDK if that was it but its a start. The one way valve youre talking about, on mine, is not stuck open. It only lets air in one way. Next is a water test to see if that was my issue

exp2000 · May 27, 2011

Re: 1984 force 85 outboard hard to start after its been shut down

I checked all valves in fuel recirculation and they were all sparkling clean, and were all letting/stopping air when blowing/sicking correctly. I noticed that my fly wheal is at 4 degrees when first piston is at top most position. Maybe my timing is not correct.
Also I found this thread http://www.marineengine.com/boat-fo...-on-hot-days-fuel-design-issue-possible/page3 that talks about fuel pump overheating and causing the fuel to evaporate before it gets to carbs. Some have even build a aluminium coolers for the pumps. I am so frustrated with this now.

shadow7g · May 27, 2011

Re: 1984 force 85 outboard hard to start after its been shut down

My timing is dead on at WOT. Idle timing will have to be off a little just for the WOT timing to be correct. Not possible to have the idle at 0 and the WOT 28 deg with this system. Ive thought about the whole vapor lock thing but ive taken the cover off of my engine and felt all fuel lines, carbs and the fuel pump and they were just warm to the touch. So i HIGHLY doubt its that... It could also be that the idle is too low with the engine in the water, which would explain why it starts so easy initially, before the water pumps through the system and puts somewhat of a load on the engine....

shadow7g · May 27, 2011

Re: 1984 force 85 outboard hard to start after its been shut down

After reading that thread ive come up with an idea for the heat soak possibility... Why not just pull the fuel line off of the engine and let the carbs and all run out of fuel and let it shut itself down then before you start back up, prime it again and see if that helps. A pain in the ***, but it may work. Im taking the boat out tomorrow and sunday, ill see of that helps at all.

exp2000 · May 29, 2011

Re: 1984 force 85 outboard hard to start after its been shut down

Ok, I am happy to say that my problems are fixed. I re-adjusted the linkage for throttle and carbs and this baby works like a champ. It takes one turn to come to life; I can put it real fast in WOT and it takes of like plane. Whoooohoooo. I got 35 mph on my gps with 4 people on and full tank. I used tiny tach to adjust my idle to 800 rpms. I let it idle for about 20 sec before shutting it off. Had not problems, no problems accelerating, no problems idling for 3 days. Oh, and I de-carbed it after I fixed everything. I also put back in old Champion sparkplugs, instead of NGK ones (although I don't think it was a problem)

shadow7g · May 30, 2011

Re: 1984 force 85 outboard hard to start after its been shut down

I think my issues is a mixture of 2 things. Yesterday we went out and got stuck for 2 hours. I tried and tried and tried to get this stupid thing to start and it didnt start. The starter gear got stuck and i had to beat it down, the starter got really hot and it wasnt turning over fast enough. When i first started working on the boat the starter was acting up so i took it apart and cleaned it. I ASSUME that the starter isnt spinning fast enough because it was making some awful sounds LOL.. Another thing i found was my number one spark plug snapped at the boot (the ceramic part) because the boot was laying beside the motor when i pulled the case off. I finally rigged it to work and it started up fine. So i have a brand new starter on the way and ill replace the plugs. My assumption was that during the process of working on this thing, i cracked the plug removing and installing the lid so many times and when it heats up it wouldnt work properly. IDK. I have my idle on the high side now just to get back to the dock. De-carbing will be the next thing i do when i get the new starter. Im glad you fixed your issue! and thanks for the update.

1984 force 85 outboard hard to start after its been shut down

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