1959 Johnson 35 HP starter wiring ???

bob844 · May 11, 2011

I managed to start this motor with the use of a couple of jumpers to cause the start solenoid to operate but hate to permanently jumper out anything without knowing what safety device I might be affecting. I have the original owners manual and Clymer's 1.5-125 HP 1956-1972 Outboard Shop Manual and neither show a wiring diagram for this motor. The solenoid is actuated by two white wires, one comes from the start switch and the other goes into a cable along with two black wires into the motor...you would suppose to a safety device of some sort. The black wires terminate at the round object that looks like it might be a horn or air pump. The white wire goes to a small metal pill like object that might be a mercury or other type switch with a second black wire leaving. There is no continuity through this switch regardless of position (it's located on the throttle shaft and rotates with it)

Any help or suggestions greatly appreciated

Today I decided to change the lower unit oil. Mostly water.. (prolly from yesterdays starting experiments) and a few gobs of black oil

HighTrim · May 11, 2011

Re: 1959 Johnson 35 HP starter wiring ???

Here is the diagram.

As you can see, the little "pill" that you described is the mercury switch. It will prevent you from starting the motor unless the switch is level, ie in the start position.

If you have any other question let us know.

bob844 · May 11, 2011

Re: 1959 Johnson 35 HP starter wiring ???

Thank you for the diagram! It should help a lot. Looks like the electrical gliches are the least of my problems. After releasing the oil/water solution from the lower unit this morning I realized I was going to have to take the lower unit apart and find out what caused the mess. Taking apart and re-assembling an outboard lower unit was not on my bucket list.

Thanks again.

P.S. What does the cutout switch cut out ?

HighTrim · May 11, 2011

Re: 1959 Johnson 35 HP starter wiring ???

Just re seal it. Dont bother pressure testing and locating the faulty seal. You can get the seal kit online for about $40. If you need help with any of the seals let us know. It is not that bad. You will need a generic T handle type seal puller, and a specialty tool of sorts for the shift rod seal. I made mine out of 5/16" rod tapered down to 1/4". I could post pics if you like.

By the way, you might want to put in new oil, with new gaskets on the drain and vent screw and go for a run. Might get lucky and it was leaking there.

bob844 · May 11, 2011

Re: 1959 Johnson 35 HP starter wiring ???

Well I neglected to confess the full magnitude of my stupidity. In releasing the lower unit oil, I unscrewed the little screw on the lower right side of the gear case similar to all my Mercury motors. Alas, it was not the "empty oil" screw but a little item called a "pivot pin" which evidently figures prominently in allowing the propeller to turn in two directions. The mechanism connected to the pivot pin apparently dropped out of sight, taking the option of not opening up the lower unit off the table.

The previous owner (hereafter referred to as the idiot) claimed to have rebuilt the lower unit and gave me a box of assorted parts, none looking too useful.

What I found inside the lower unit was gearing in good looking condition and mating surfaces covered with hardened gasket cement, new string type gasket around the perimeter and the seal closest to the prop looked somewhat bent out of shape. I cleaned things up the best I could and quit for the day.

Woodstock60 · May 11, 2011

Re: 1959 Johnson 35 HP starter wiring ???

Don,t feel too bad about the pivot pin, most of us has done that at one point or another ( mostly when we were newbies) I know I have. It is a great learning experiance, you will never do it again. resealing the lu really aint to tough, but when you take it apart, snap lots of pictures especially if your taking all the gears apart to clean. they have to go back together exactly how they came apart, you dont want to have to do it twice. Also dont skip any seals, the one you skip is the one that leaks.

bob844 · May 11, 2011

Re: 1959 Johnson 35 HP starter wiring ???

Well I found a seal kit:

http://www.iboats.com/mall/partfind...gd_poid=110561&gd_row=29&**********=876047443

but it has more gaskets and seals than I know of places to put them. This ought to be fun.

HighTrim · May 11, 2011

Re: 1959 Johnson 35 HP starter wiring ???

In the kit will be the prop shaft seal, drive shaft seal, shift rod seal (o ring), the o ring for the circ of the prop shaft seal housing, 2 new gaskets for the drain and vent screw, the spaghetti seal, and the o ring for the top of the drive shaft.

The vaccuum cutout switch was used in case the motor "ran-away" in neutral. That motor could rev up very high in neutral and pulling the throttle back would not slow it down. The vacuum switch would cut out 1 cylinder when the intake vacuum was very high with the motor racing and the throttle closed.

bob844 · May 12, 2011

Re: 1959 Johnson 35 HP starter wiring ???

Thanks for the reply(s). With the help available here, there's a good chance this thing might actually run!

bob844 · May 12, 2011

Re: 1959 Johnson 35 HP starter wiring ???

While waiting for my seal kit we (son-in-law and I) cleaned up the mating surfaces and just for giggles, fitted everthing together. Discovered the prop won't fit; at least not the way I think the prop seal should fit. The original was all scraped up and worn down on one side from sitting cocked in place and having the prop run against it. I found a similar undamaged one in the box of junk the previous owner gave me. If mounted the obvious way; painted side and bump-out facing outward, the prop won't go far enough down the shaft to put in the shear pin. If the seal is installed "backwards" as my SIL insists must be correct, with the painted side and the bump-out facing in towards the gearing, the prop fits. And the seal looks like it would perform better because the lips are slanted out. Also note how the shear pin holes are wallowed out on the prop.

So I took pix of the seal mounted each way. Which is correct?
(There's 500 innernet bucks riding on the outcome)

bob844 · May 13, 2011

Re: 1959 Johnson 35 HP starter wiring ???

HighTrim said:
Just re seal it. Dont bother pressure testing and locating the faulty seal. You can get the seal kit online for about $40. If you need help with any of the seals let us know. It is not that bad. You will need a generic T handle type seal puller, and a specialty tool of sorts for the shift rod seal. I made mine out of 5/16" rod tapered down to 1/4". I could post pics if you like.

By the way, you might want to put in new oil, with new gaskets on the drain and vent screw and go for a run. Might get lucky and it was leaking there.

Well I'm waiting for a seal kit as described in post #10 (wherever it is) but I don't recognize some of the items you describe. I don't know what a T handle seal puller is and I'm beginning to suspect there's more to changing seals than I pictured. If you look at my last post where I picture the prop seal, is that the seal or the seal carrier from which the seal itself must be removed and replaced? I'm begining to suspect those little holes in the rim have a useful function. And by the way, which way does that seal go? Thanks.

HighTrim · May 13, 2011

Re: 1959 Johnson 35 HP starter wiring ???

Those little holes are where you insert a punch to drive the seal out of the housing. They face outwards towards the prop. This is a pic of the seal puller like I use. Just a random example, but will give you an idea. They are available at most auto parts stores for around $10. If you put the seal housing in a vice, cushion it with wood, and be careful to use the vice as leverage for the puller, not the housing. I have 2 damaged housings to prove this.

http://www.ecvv.com/product/2154324.html

The shift rod seal is the one that you need a special tool for. You can either make your own, or order one from F_R on this forum, he fabricates them.

bob844 · May 13, 2011

Re: 1959 Johnson 35 HP starter wiring ???

HighTrim said:
Those little holes are where you insert a punch to drive the seal out of the housing. They face outwards towards the prop. This is a pic of the seal puller like I use. Just a random example, but will give you an idea. They are available at most auto parts stores for around $10. If you put the seal housing in a vice, cushion it with wood, and be careful to use the vice as leverage for the puller, not the housing. I have 2 damaged housings to prove this.

http://www.ecvv.com/product/2154324.html

The shift rod seal is the one that you need a special tool for. You can either make your own, or order one from F_R on this forum, he fabricates them.

As described above, the only way my prop will fit on the shaft is if the little holes (painted surface)
face in. Maybe you can tell the difference from the pix.

I'm sitting here staring at this housing and suddenly wondered if possibly the *** (excuse the expression) in the gearcase is meant not to stop the seal housing from moving any further in but is meant to fit in the hole in the perimeter of the housing. Would allow the seal housing to go in the correct way and the prop would fit.

samo_ott · May 13, 2011

Re: 1959 Johnson 35 HP starter wiring ???

I have the parts manual for the '59 J35hp if you want it. If yes, PM me your emails address and model #.

Woodstock60 · May 13, 2011

Re: 1959 Johnson 35 HP starter wiring ???

You got that right, That is what the hole is for!!!

bob844 said:
I'm sitting here staring at this housing and suddenly wondered if possibly the *** (excuse the expression) in the gearcase is meant not to stop the seal housing from moving any further in but is meant to fit in the hole in the perimeter of the housing. Would allow the seal housing to go in the correct way and the prop would fit.

HighTrim · May 14, 2011

Re: 1959 Johnson 35 HP starter wiring ???

Isnt it great when you answer your own question!

I went down and took pics of the installation procedure for the gearcase for your motor, but you figured it out on your own. Do you have some 3M 847? You will need it.

bob844 · May 14, 2011

Re: 1959 Johnson 35 HP starter wiring ???

HighTrim said:
Isnt it great when you answer your own question!

I went down and took pics of the installation procedure for the gearcase for your motor, but you figured it out on your own. Do you have some 3M 847? You will need it.

No, but I googled it so I know what to get and generally why. Do you think this seal kit I'm waiting for might have some kind of instructions as to what goes where? I'm sure some things will be obvious but looking at these two apparently interchageable seal housings that are similar in outside dimensions but different looking internally has me scratching.

HighTrim · May 14, 2011

Re: 1959 Johnson 35 HP starter wiring ???

No there will not be any instructions of any kind.

The seals for the prop shaft and drive shaft are different sizes, they will only fit one way. The largest o ring that you will get will be for the prop shaft seal housing. The spaghetti seal is self explanatory. Cut it a bit longer than you need, about 1/16" over hang, so that when assembled it will compress tight for a good seal. You will need the 847 for this seal especially. Cut the ends square, not on an angle. Dont forget the oring at the top of the drive shaft, or you will have trouble removing the gearcase the next time you service it. It keeps water from working its way up the drive shaft, rusting the splines. Marine grease on the splines is reccomended, just not on the top of the driveshaft.

Any other questions while you assembling let us know.
"

bob844 · May 18, 2011

Re: 1959 Johnson 35 HP starter wiring ???

HighTrim said:
No there will not be any instructions of any kind.

The seals for the prop shaft and drive shaft are different sizes, they will only fit one way. The largest o ring that you will get will be for the prop shaft seal housing. The spaghetti seal is self explanatory. Cut it a bit longer than you need, about 1/16" over hang, so that when assembled it will compress tight for a good seal. You will need the 847 for this seal especially. Cut the ends square, not on an angle. Dont forget the oring at the top of the drive shaft, or you will have trouble removing the gearcase the next time you service it. It keeps water from working its way up the drive shaft, rusting the splines. Marine grease on the splines is reccomended, just not on the top of the driveshaft.

Any other questions while you assembling let us know.
"

Before I attempt to reassemble this beast, a few more questions.

In an earlier post you mention knocking out seals with drive pins and pulling them with a seal puller. Which method is used on which seal?

The tool to be used on the shift rod seal which you mentioned in an earlier post as being 5/16? and tapering to ?? ; I?m guessing could not be made from a wooden dowel. Could you post the picture you mentioned earlier and a possible source of supply?

When we opened the gearcase, the mating surfaces were thick with hardened black gasket cement. The Clymer manual mentions coating the metal case of the housing seals with OMC Gasket Sealing Compound. Further on it says to ?Coat the machined surfaces of both gearcase halves and the exposed area of the gearcase head (?) with Sealer 1000 or OMC Adhesive M.??..after placing the spaghetti seal, ?Apply OMC RTV Sealant on each end of the seal for a distance of ? in ?
Does the 3M 847 you mentioned somewhere above replace any of these and if not, what does it get used for?

Sorry about being a PITA but I hate to think about doing this again next month. Thanks

HighTrim · May 18, 2011

Re: 1959 Johnson 35 HP starter wiring ???

Not a PITA at all, easier to ask and get it right the first time.

Here is a pic of the rod I made. It is just a 2' or so rod that I grinded a taper on one end to wedge into the seal. Bought the rod for a couple bucks at a hardware store. If you would like to purchase a really nicely made tool, contact F_R on this forum, he fabricates them.

Here is the rod inserted into the shift rod seal ready for hammering.

Here is the 847 and the shift rod oring and housing after removal. The 847 is all you will need for the gearcase re seal. Use it on/around the spaghetti seal, it replaces the sealer 1000/type M you mentioned. I also use a little around the shift rod o ring housing, and around the circ of the prop and drive shaft seals. Ensures it is water tight, but you only need a little.

I usually use the generic type seal puller on both the drive shaft and prop shaft seals. However, if your prop shaft seal housing has 2 holes in the backside, you can drive the seal out with a hammer and punch that fits the hole. Whatever method you prefer will work.

Let us know how you do.

1959 Johnson 35 HP starter wiring ???

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