Morgan Deck repair advice

Morgan36t

Recruit
Joined
May 2, 2011
Messages
4
Hey guys, I'm new to the forums. I am restoring a 1974 Morgan 36t. I am in the proccess of restoring the deck. I decided to take out the Shroud mounts. Originally there was plywood for a core under the shroud mounts. I am replacing the balsa with A-500 foam core. I am building my shroud mounts with fiberglass cloth 38.5 oz. I was going to layer the top few layers of the shroud mounts with Biaxal cloth 17 oz then put the original skin back. Do you guys think using the biaxal is a good idea on top of a few layers of 38.5 oz? Also how many layers of fiberglass at a time can I make? I started with two layers of 38.5 cloth. I am also rebuilding my stansions the same way.
 

BWT

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Apr 30, 2011
Messages
363
Re: Morgan Deck repair advice

I'm trying to remember how the shrouds are mounted on the 36 (it's the 1ton and not the O/I)? I know the stays are attached to heavy chain plates, but I can't remember what's on the underside of the lowers.. Please refresh my memory or even better include pics. How large of an area per mount are you doing? Also, I'm a little confused on your post, "Originally there was plywood for a core under the shroud mounts. I am replacing the balsa with A-500 foam core." Please explain.. The majority of the deck is balsa and around the stays plywood? Would make sense, but just want a little more clarification.. Thanks :)
 

Morgan36t

Recruit
Joined
May 2, 2011
Messages
4
Re: Morgan Deck repair advice

thanks for your reply. Yes the boat is a 1ton. The upper and lower are both connected to a strong chain plate. The boat is built out of polyester. The deck has a 3/8' balsa core. Under certain winches and the upper and lower shrouds is plywood. This is the frist time I am going to use high density non absorbant foam core. I was given advice to use this product. I already replace other sections of the deck with balsa unfortunally. I don't have any photo's right now. Unfortunally the boat has been on land for 10 years and only covered one year out of the 10. I know the boat well and my goal is to sail it accross the atlantic. I was looking for advice on what fiberglass would be idea for rebuilding stantion mounts and using under the shroud mounts? Also to my knowledge I should grind down the perimeter about a inch wide of the deck repair and fill it in with fiberglass and filler to prevent two edges? All advice would be appriciated.
 

BWT

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Apr 30, 2011
Messages
363
Re: Morgan Deck repair advice

well, before I weigh in on the glass layup, I would like to offer some food for thought on the foam and it's location for use. Looking at the original construction, the reason ply was used in the high load areas (winches, main sheet traveler, genny tracks, cleats, etc) is because of it's strength properties; particularly compressive strength. In your situation, with the exception of the stays (which carry the load down to the keel), all of the other load bearring hardware is through bolted through ply, with some areas having backing plates.

The advantage of using ply here is that when loads are applied (and on a 36' sailboat, there will be many thousands of pounds of force) it's able to take the strain and distribute the stress over a much larger area. This is where compressive properties become critical. If the core material easily compresses, there is a likelyhood that the mounting bolts will actually get pulled throught the glass and into the core, or even possibly pulled through and rip out.

Looking at the properties of the foam that your using, it's a 5 pound density (it's really not that much). Balsa core that has been properly saturated with resin is twice that, and plywood of the same thickness is roughly four to five times that of the balsa. This particular type of foam relies mostly on the glass for it's strength; it doesn't really add much to the overall layup. If you're already committed to this material, I would go heavy on the glass and use oversized backing plates for much of the hardware (stanchions included; especially if you intent to do any crossings). OK, enough of that rant...

As far as glass selection and layup, I would be looking at using a combo of the 1708 bi-ax and 1.5oz matting. Think of the matting as a glue/bonding layer within the laminates. Now, the 1708 has a .75oz mat backer on it. So, If it were me I would use the 1.5oz mat as the first layers against the foam, then build with alternating layers of the 1708 and 1.5 oz mat, finishing off with 2-3 layers of the 1.5 oz matting. The 1708 is a little thinner material than the 38.5 oz cloth allowing you to have more layers in a given thickness; much like plywood, more layers = stronger / stiffer laminate. Matting is excellent to use for top layers because it sands level allowing you to have a smooth surface for finishing; woven cloth and the likes will give you print through that will allow you to see the weave pattern on the finished surfaces. Even though you are looking to re-use the original skin, you will still be grinding and tapering seams between the skin sections to glass back together to re-form the solid surface.

As far as the number of layers to use for each layup? With the thicker reinforcements I would use laminating polyester resin and limit things to 2-3 laminates per layup. After that has kicked, then I would do the next set of 2-3. If you're using a laminating resin, there's no need to sand between layups (within a certain period of time).

As far as the width to prevent two edges, are you referring to the skin or the core sections? Skin sections I would do 1" per side (2" taper total) and do that tabbing with 1.5oz mat. Core sections I would butt up to one another.

These are just my opinions, hopefully other glass guys will weigh in. :)
 

Yacht Dr.

Vice Admiral
Joined
Feb 26, 2005
Messages
5,581
Re: Morgan Deck repair advice

I really dont understand the question.. you want to rebuild the stanchion bases ? and then what to use for the Backing blocks for your stays ? ..

Are they deck stays or hull chain plates ?

Why do you need to glass your deck ?

Most dont know what is 38.5 oz cloth ( is this an epoxy binder cloth ? ) .

Need some info here and some pics please :)

YD.
 

Morgan36t

Recruit
Joined
May 2, 2011
Messages
4
Re: Morgan Deck repair advice

I don't know how to post photo's. However I'm nearly done with this part of the restoration. I have a 4 inch grinder set up with a sanding "grinding disk" I need to sand the primiter around different sections of deck that I replaced the core and used the original skin. The round sanding disk is to large. I need to make it only about 1.5 inch wide. What tool can I get for this project? Also I am rebuiling stantions and need to do some fine technical sanding. Is there any other tools available other than the dremel? I have a good palm sander and a 4 inch grinder. I need to get some more boat restoration sanding tools? Thanks
 

Yacht Dr.

Vice Admiral
Joined
Feb 26, 2005
Messages
5,581
Re: Morgan Deck repair advice

Need some info here and some pics please :)
YD.

I don't know how to post photo's. However I'm nearly done with this part of the restoration.

Also I am rebuiling stantions and need to do some fine technical sanding. Is there any other tools available other than the dremel? I have a good palm sander and a 4 inch grinder. I need to get some more boat restoration sanding tools? Thanks

I guess your looking for suggestions from someone that cannot see the repair..and then asking more information still without providing us some kind of visual..

This is not a " chip in the bottom " .. it sometimes can be technical enough to where you should be advised..but not Via ESP or OBE recommendation :) ..

Need them pics m8 ..

YD.
 
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