Giving advice on career?

Some friends dropped by with their son (about to graduate high school) and the discussion turned to collage/career choices and he asked how I got to the point where I do contract work as opposed to a 9-5 job. I explained it was a VERY convoluted path and not one I would recommend but that it does have its benefits and draw backs like any job does. Next up he asked what fields lend themselves to contract work and I gave him my view that in the not so distant future the majority of professionals will be contracted instead of hired as a full time employee. His mom, a home maker, said he should still try to target a career with a large company for the job security and his dad, an over the road trucker, pretty much said the same thing.

I bit my tongue and didn?t say it but I wanted to tell them the days job security with a large company are coming to an end. In my mind I wondered how many parents are still selling the idea to their children and in my opinion leaving them with hopes for something that I just don?t think is in the cards? Perhaps it?s because I primarily work in manufacturing (factory automation) but I can?t begin to count the people I know that had 10, 15, 20 or more years at manufacturing companies that have been laid off, down sized, etc. (People with degrees)

Just curious how others feel about it. Are parents doing their kids a disservice by pushing them along the traditional path of collage and a job to retire from?

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I think you've hit the nail square on the head. The days of joining up with a big company and retiring with them are gone. The global economy has seen to that. Old mindsets are the hardest to change, but need to happen soon.

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Truth right there. My grandad left the Air Force with lineman training, and went immediately to a large paper mill as an electrician, where he retired from 42 years later. This just doesnt happen anymore. I have had more career changes than I care to even think about...and I went to college! I keep my CDL current though. Always openings for experienced drivers.

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I think a lot of it depends on the field one is in. That being said, many people do not stay with their company too long because they see an opportunity and jump for it. I can't tell you how many of my team members have left only to call me 6 months later wanting to come back. Some industries are much more contract work than others and I think we will still continue to see jobs move to contracted type jobs.

In many fields, one can stay with their company if they chose to. I have been with my company for 15 years and my boss over 20. We have many team members in the 25-35 year range.

That being said, as opposed to job security I will be directing my son (3 years old) to field/industry security. Do something that makes you happy, but do it in an industry or field that is growing, not one that is going away.

The biggest porblem I see with our workforce today is I hire someone in an a position and in 6 months they want a raise, even if they are not performing above the expectations. The sense of entitlement from those entering the workforce is horrible and this sense of entitlement cause young workers to make poor decisions that end up causing more harm than good.

Rant over.

Re: Giving advice on career?

Advise on careers is a very difficult matter in this day and age.

With what looks like the end of the industrial age in America, a college degree is a must. Employers will often times only consider someone with some college education. I have noticed that the college education doesn?t even have to be in the field that you work in.

Specialty trades will still be in demand. Medical dental, power systems, oil production, and large-scale farming, to name a few, will still be needed in the future.

I think if I was just getting out of high school and entering college, I would choose a path for business management. If a person can not find a company to manage, they could make a company for himself. Banks like to make loans to people who have management capabilities.

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Great thread topic Bubba.
First......get this, I too work in a self-employment capacity contracted to (usually) factory automation....go figure eh?
I fully agree with you in that his parents may not be in touch with the future realities quickly coming down the road towards their son.
My take is that contracting is a method that lends itself to certain professions at certain experience levels, particulary in my (our?) field. The trick in more involved fields is to get that level of advanced experience and mentorship prior to heading out on your own. In this field it's hard to get that without at least 5-10 years of this kind of momentum.
If I was a tradesman (electrician, carpenter, etc) I'd finish my apprenticeship...put about 3-5 years under my belt and head out on my own.
Either way, I fully agree that self-employment....or lets say self-determination is the way and security of the future with respect to supporting yourself.
The worse thing about working for a bigger company is the dilution of well rounded and diverse experience. You end up being a small cog in the machine....and future employers now more than ever....know it. It's no longer 'positive' on the ol' resume'. Then in a mass round of layoffs your 'job' competition are your co-workers (10's? 100's?) who are cookie cutters of your experience which makes it hard to nab that next job.
Great points so far in this thread tho' and again, great topic.
All Good
BP

Re: Giving advice on career?

Well......... regardless of which career he decides to chase.....he needs a degree to compete. Most (the majority) college students change major's while going for the 4 year degree (which in today's world takes 4 1/2 years).

What students learn today as freshman in college is outdated before they are senior's. Look at computer's ...... today's top of the line is outdated in less then a week.

The only solid significant advice I would give is to get a degree. It will result in higher overall wages and is dam near required for any entry level position.

According to the Labor Market Information (which I keep very informed about) IT work, Healthcare and accounting are all critical. If he studies to do IT in a healthcare setting I, would guaranty he will have a solid future. If he is the blue collar type......he will still need an education. If you really want to be surprised....... you should see how many 4 yr college grads are doing the blue collar jobs today.

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What I've come to realize about college degrees is it isn't so much about the education gleaned as it is about "sticking" with something to completion.

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I think the days of jobs with long term security are gone. That was one reason I chose government employment way back in 1979, and even there I was laid off after 16 years. After a 2+ year break in service, I was rehired by the state and had I not taken an early retirement this past fall, I would have been laid off again with 28+ years. The problem is, I didn't know that, I just decided to take the money and run. All but three of my coworkers were laid off 3 months after I retired. Nowadays, government funding is much more closely tied to the general economy than it used to be. Whenever the subject comes up in our house, I try to discourage both my sons (in their 20's) from working for the state if the main reason is that they are looking for job security.

Re: Giving advice on career?

Bubba1235 said:

I wanted to tell them the days job security with a large company are coming to an end. In my mind I wondered how many parents are still selling the idea to their children and in my opinion leaving them with hopes for something that I just don?t think is in the cards? Perhaps it?s because I primarily work in manufacturing (factory automation) but I can?t begin to count the people I know that had 10, 15, 20 or more years at manufacturing companies that have been laid off, down sized, etc. (People with degrees)

Just curious how others feel about it. Are parents doing their kids a disservice by pushing them along the traditional path of collage and a job to retire from?

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Well for decades, and several generations that has been the norm..Get a H/S diploma and get a job in a factory or the trades.

In more recent times with more manufacturing jobs going over seas we are changing into a post industrial economy and becoming more service oriented. Not that there aren't manufacturing jobs out there, but many do not pay what they used to.

I have worked manufacturing(about two weeks) didn't like it. I worked for the state for many years not a bad job out doors when it was nice and could find something indoors to do if the weather was disagreeable good benefits low pay, with the union as a fabricator and service tech traveling from one job to the next, and as an independent. Now I'm in the process of getting a college degree and will be going into a different field all-together which I will have little to no experience in. I have no clue as to how marketable Is will be and as to the fact that I am slightly less than young and to what degree my past experience will help me other than I have learned to rely on myself to know what it takes to get the job done and the logistics it may entail.

I will admit that working as an independent I learned the most about what it takes to get a job done, having had to do the estimating, bidding, logistics, labor, and billing, and if there is a special niche you can fill that not many people can do or if it is something that a lot of people don't want to do, or it may even be something that may require extensive training and certifications to do. You can make a comfortable living.

Fortunately life always has the opportunity to whack you with a big old twist of fate ( ask me how I know if you want a long story). Much of what I learned I did not learn in a class room setting. and the only thing I think I would have added to what you told the kid is get out there and try a few different things before you settle on doing one thing, and if there is the opportunity to go to school and get it paid for by someone else(the company you work for) do it.

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Work expierence with you bubba to start, then he can see what is possible.
All young people need to be molded, it is only through some hands on they can fully realize thier full potential.

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People need food = Trucking.

People need gas = Trucking.

People need cloths = Trucking.

People need cars & trucks = Trucking

People need household stuff = Trucking


I made a very good living driving for 33yrs without a layoff.

I'm retired at 53yrs old and enjoying life now.

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Healthcare is a stable choice. It'll always be needed. Not many companies of any kind are offering retirement benefits other than 401K, 403B, 457B, ect. Not many pension plans out there today. Whatever you can save in a tax deferred account is the norm today. Your lucky to get a company match at any percentage.

Aspire to be a sheep? Not very sound advice IMO. If looking at working for someone as a means of on the job training, then you may very well have chosen a good path.

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Summer Fun said:

People need food = Trucking.

People need gas = Trucking.

People need cloths = Trucking.

People need cars & trucks = Trucking

People need household stuff = Trucking


I made a very good living driving for 33yrs without a layoff.

I'm retired at 53yrs old and enjoying life now.

Click to expand...

Trust me on this one....... trucking companies are now starting to look for far more education then they have before. I agree it is a valuable industry (paying people to be professional tourists!! ) and along with everything else it is changing.

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Large company security is alive and well. You have to be in the right position in the right industry.

Working for a large company making phone booths isn't a promising career. Going to school to be a pay phone technician isn?t a wise career move.

Large companies are no longer the "assembly line" type, 9-5 and go home jobs of old. Most of the people I know that have been laid offered little or nothing to their employer. They came in on time, worked their 8 hours and went home on time. Problem is, there are latterly thousands of ?good? employees out there so they are expendable.

At my company, you need a Bachelor?s degree for any position above hourly. Sure, we turn over hourly employees, but our salaried people tend to stay long periods of time once they get in. In the group of 230 that I work with, the average tenure is close to 15years. In my group of 15 the average tenure is over 20 years.

Every one of the 15 people I work with could find a job with a competitor tomorrow afternoon if need be. Several including myself, have turned down significant salary increases to jump ship and go work for the competitors. Why, because of the deep pockets of a large corporation.

Re: Giving advice on career?

veritas honus said:

Healthcare is a stable choice. It'll always be needed.....

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I agree with this. My wife went back to get her masters degree in teaching after 23 years as a registered nurse. After 3 years, she graduated, started looking for jobs as a health education teacher....just as the school budgets were crashing. We thought that since health education was state mandated, it would be secure, but now she can't even get her foot in the door because they are cutting positions and offering health classes on-line only to meet the state requirements. A very poor substitute in my opinion.

Anyway, all this time, she still has always had almost her pick of jobs as a nurse, which turned out to be way more stable than my career in state government. She is now on the verge of getting a teaching position where she currently works that involves teaching nurses, so that combination looks good.

By the way, I have a bachelors degree, and I am really glad I went to college and earned it. It was a great experience and exposed me to things I never would have had the opportunity to experience, coming from a small town as I do. The irony is, in my particular career path, that degree did not help me one iota, ever, as far as career advancement went. But I still think it is a valuable thing to do, recommend it to all young people today, and believe that the more education you can get, the better off you are.

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I agree that having an education in a field is a big plus. It does not matter what job market you go in to there has to be a long term demand for it. Even a Barber can retire as a millionaire with the right planing. The big thing in to days job market is it may take 5 or 6 or more to find the one that works for you.

In western Canada right now there is a huge demand for trades people. All the people who were doing it are starting to retire and no one to replace them. No one wants to be the blue caller worker. The funny thing is most young people don't know how to drive a nail or turn a wrench properly. Give them a video game or a computer and there right at home so they tend to graduate toward the over crowded electronic field.

Great thread

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As a head hunter in Information Technology I get to see many situations both from companies and candidates. I think employers created a situation where everyone was expendable and was treated as such over the last 10 years or so. Many folks came to realize they wouldn?t be working 30-40 years at one company and were forced to adapt to this new way of thinking. Because there is no allegiance to employees, they (employees) no longer have any allegiance back. The global economy has a lot to do with this new trend on both sides. The result is, there is no job security anywhere unless you work for a govt agency IMO.
I agree the parents that lived in a different time are really misleading their kids; these kids should really be speaking with a career counselor to find the best areas to work. They should also have a plan B so they have some form of a back up plan. Here in Michigan a huge portion of our population depended on the automotive sector, and then the state to solve their problems. The result is a broke state and a ton of people who sit around sucking the public teat, for way too long. IT is still a great place to work and good resources make great $$, you just need to be flexible, your competing with many foreign nationals, who usually are much better educated than 90% of Americans. They are transient too making them much for easy to hire.

Re: Giving advice on career?

Bubba1235 said:

Just to clarify, I wasn't talking so much about the profession the young guy goes into but rather how he approaches his next four or five years while getting his degree and what expectations are when he graduates.

As an example, a lot of companies in the area have short intern programs that pay little or even nothing but give you great exposure to their business. The young guy in question has a summer job lined up that pays well but it's strickly manual labor and it's with the same company he worked with last summer.

My suggestion, which mom and dad frowned on, was to skip the good paying summer job where he will learn little if anything and go with an intern position. I even suggested he sit down with a top notch head hunder I know (manages consultants) and talk to him about taking a number of different jobs while in school to gain experiance. I know the head hunter would be more than willing to help put together something if the young guy is trying to position himself as a contractor after graduation.

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The intern thing is a great way to gain some experience, because very, very few companies will hire a new grad with no exp. You will also learn about the field of choice and learn if you even like it. But even more important is contacts in the field of choice, 80% of all jobs are secured through who you know. If the kid starts networking now, internships and eventual jobs may flow in.
I cant tell you how many grads that send 4000 resumes out and get nothing back. Again it's all about your network. Check out LinkedIn and these types of online networking sites. And this isnt the place to put personal traits, keep it professional 100%. Being willing to relocate is key too.

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You are dead on Bubba about the internship thing. I went to school for engineering. I had 3 internships over 3 different summers. The first was with United Defense working in their electronics test lab. That was interesting. The second was at a mechanical engineering design firm where I did drafting and also helped out their network guy and in their print shop. I really enjoyed that. The most important however, was the third, which was also at a (different) mechanical engineering firm. I had assumed I would be doing drafting, but what they really wanted me to do was set up an intranet web site for them. I had never done that kind of work before and really enjoyed it. I ended up making that my career.