Another Johnson popping out of gear thread.

Joined
Jan 5, 2010
Messages
7
I've got a 1980 Johnson 25hp (J25RLCSA) which I purchased used last summer. Well under load at 3/4 throttle it jumps out of gear. I searched here and saw that most of the time it was a worn clutch dog, if not a linkage issue. I check the linkage all seemed good, so I figured it was the clutch dog. I put the motor away for the winter and now that hunting season is over, it's time to get ready for fishing season. So I've got a few questions I need help with.

Upon disassembly of the lower unit, I noticed one of the detent balls had made it's way out from under the clutch dog. Could this have been part of my problem? Or more likely did I do it monkeying with the dog?

Having read up on similar scenarios, it seems the simple solution is to flip the clutch dog if it is worn. It appears as though this may have already been done, as both sides of the lobes seem worn. I have attached pictures of the clutch dog, and ask for opinions on its conditon. Also, I am attaching pictures of the forward and reverse gears for inspection. I appreciate any feedback.

Thanks.
Brian

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wilde1j

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Apr 15, 2002
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5,964
Re: Another Johnson popping out of gear thread.

Typically at a minimum, fwd gear and the clutch need to be replaced. Looks like both here.
 

dew2

Senior Chief Petty Officer
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May 6, 2010
Messages
674
Re: Another Johnson popping out of gear thread.

I'm no expert but the detent ball can only come out by moving the dog, when the gears are in there it can't move far enough to pop a ball out.So I assume you did it.I really dont see much wrong with the dog or gear wear.Was the shift rod adjusted properly?
 
Joined
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Re: Another Johnson popping out of gear thread.

I figured the dog would be shot, but hoped the forward gear wasn't. The detent ball probably slipped out when I was playing with it. I did inspect the shift linkage in the window initially, and found it OK. Wanting to be as thorough as possible, I just yanked the lower shift rod out. Is the shift rod supposed to be straight?

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I'll try to resize pictures from now on.
 

dew2

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
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Messages
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Re: Another Johnson popping out of gear thread.

I'll guess the rod is OK they all have some different bends,On the motor shifter there is a adjustment,You will need a manual to explain the adjustment.Go to this site enter

http://shop2.evinrude.com/Index.aspx?s1=1f0033fplcf86df9ulidcdp403&catalog_id=0&siteid=1

Johnson,then 25Hp, then your model #, and then exhaust housing.Look at part #39 its
39 0388655 ADJ.LEVER & SHAFT ASSY.

My guess is that the clutch dogs travel isnt going far enough into forward to get full contact with the gear,Because the gears and dogs condition look really good to me.BUT I hope someone else can confirm my assessment.
 
Joined
Jan 5, 2010
Messages
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Re: Another Johnson popping out of gear thread.

Thanks dew2, I'll have to check that part when I get home. I only brought my lower unit to work. Of course if it is that part, it's tagged obsolete.

I do have a Seloc manual, but I've been using boats.net for additional schematics and part numbers.
Everywhere I have looked, the shift rod looks straight right up until the bottom where it bends around the propeller shaft. The manner in which mine is bent would shorten the overall length and possibly lead to a short throw.
 

dew2

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
May 6, 2010
Messages
674
Re: Another Johnson popping out of gear thread.

I didn't show the part thinking it was bad.I did show it as its the shiftrod length adjustment.Hope you figuar it out.
 

wilde1j

Vice Admiral
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Messages
5,964
Re: Another Johnson popping out of gear thread.

An OEM shop manual would probably give you a better idea of what the shift rod should look like. BTW, Seloc (and Clymer) don't have a very good reputaion here (other than as beer coasters or kneepads).

The shift rod shown on the BRP Evinrude website PL looks just like yours. I expect you're in for a new clutch dog and fwd gear.
 

jasper60103

Commander
Joined
Sep 18, 2008
Messages
2,055
Re: Another Johnson popping out of gear thread.

I would love to hear the outcome of this, as I have the same motor and it popped out of gear a couple times. I haven't fixed it yet as I have two other running motors. If you need a factory service manual, I can help you out. Just send me a PM with your email address.

SDC11973.jpg
 
Joined
Jan 5, 2010
Messages
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Re: Another Johnson popping out of gear thread.

Thanks guys. Monday will be the frst day I can get out to my local marina and get some parts ordered. I'll let you all know how it works out when everything arrives. Thanks again.

Brian
 
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Jan 5, 2010
Messages
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Re: Another Johnson popping out of gear thread.

The OMC guy at my local marina said the shift rod was in fact bent, which would cause the forward gear to not fully engage. He also said the clutch and gear looked normal and did not recommend replacing them. So I ordered a new lower shift rod, lower seal kit, and new water pump assembly since everything was apart. Parts should be in early next week. I'll update when the parts arrive.
 

Lostfisher

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Nov 2, 2009
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Re: Another Johnson popping out of gear thread.

the gears look fine to me.
 

kevin11mic

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Oct 12, 2010
Messages
96
Re: Another Johnson popping out of gear thread.

I had the same motor and got tired of having issues witht the lower unit so i got rid of it. I also had issues with the clutch dog not going all the way into gear. turns out the lever that the shifter rolls on broke off and it wasnt holding its self in gear. Over time with the dog not being in all the way i ended up having to overhaul the whole lu with all the very expensive parts. the inner and outer prop shaft seals are arround 100 bucks because you have to buy the whole outer piece of the lu. I would change the thrust washers too because i had one split on me and ruin the gears too
 

CharlieB

Vice Admiral
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
5,617
Re: Another Johnson popping out of gear thread.

A stretched shift cable, improperly adjusted shift cable, or improperly adjust shift rod HEIGHT, or a combination of these will also cause 'popping' out of gear under greater power loads.

Get the FACTORY Service Manual and be SURE of ALL adjustments.
 

witenite0560

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Sep 6, 2008
Messages
216
Re: Another Johnson popping out of gear thread.

I agree, the gears and dog look fine, quite good in fact. Probably at some time someone tried to shift without the motor or prop turning and put enough force on it to bend your shift rod. You could probably just take some of the bend out of the hook in the end and go through your linkage adjustment procedures and be good as new.
 

stevo10081984

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jan 16, 2011
Messages
40
Re: Another Johnson popping out of gear thread.

I had the same motor and got tired of having issues witht the lower unit so i got rid of it. I also had issues with the clutch dog not going all the way into gear. turns out the lever that the shifter rolls on broke off and it wasnt holding its self in gear. Over time with the dog not being in all the way i ended up having to overhaul the whole lu with all the very expensive parts. the inner and outer prop shaft seals are arround 100 bucks because you have to buy the whole outer piece of the lu. I would change the thrust washers too because i had one split on me and ruin the gears too

ive heard others say that this 2 part non thru hub exhaust lower unit is "bullet proof"....im hoping their right, because i just bought 2 of the 28 spl that share that same lu....geuss we'll find out soon as the snow melts!!!!....hey not to be rude but mind me asking what $ you picked her up for....just trying to get an idea of what these are worth, because as long as ive got one that runs top notch, i will probably get rid of the other...also what is the compression in your 25?
 
Joined
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Messages
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Re: Another Johnson popping out of gear thread.

So I finally got all my parts and the lower unit reassembled. The new shift rod is indeed bent, but significantly differently than the one I replaced. Pictures will show the difference. I replaced all the seals and did a whole water pump kit while it was all apart. The lower unit shifts way better by hand. I feel a real positive engagement now. I got the lower unit mated back to the motor tonight and should get her in the water Sunday. Again, I'll keep you posted.
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jasper60103

Commander
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Sep 18, 2008
Messages
2,055
Re: Another Johnson popping out of gear thread.

So I finally got all my parts and the lower unit reassembled. The new shift rod is indeed bent, but significantly differently than the one I replaced. Pictures will show the difference. I replaced all the seals and did a whole water pump kit while it was all apart. The lower unit shifts way better by hand. I feel a real positive engagement now. I got the lower unit mated back to the motor tonight and should get her in the water Sunday. Again, I'll keep you posted.

Yea, that's definitely bent. Thanks for sharing the details of your rebuild. Was the shift rod seal a pain to get out?

Look forward to hearing the results of the water test.
 
Joined
Jan 5, 2010
Messages
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Re: Another Johnson popping out of gear thread.

The only seal I did not replace was for the shift rod. I believe the shift rod o ring or seal was incorrect for my application. It was significantly larger that the shift rod, and in the interest of time, I decided to put the LU back together. That split gearcase is beyond simple to work on, so I am not worried about going back into it. At this point I just want the motor to stay in gear. I plan on running her in a tank this afternoon, after which I'll check the LU oil. Once I get a couple good runs on her, I'll check everthing out again.
 

jasper60103

Commander
Joined
Sep 18, 2008
Messages
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Re: Another Johnson popping out of gear thread.

The only seal I did not replace was for the shift rod. I believe the shift rod o ring or seal was incorrect for my application. It was significantly larger that the shift rod, and in the interest of time, I decided to put the LU back together. That split gearcase is beyond simple to work on, so I am not worried about going back into it. At this point I just want the motor to stay in gear. I plan on running her in a tank this afternoon, after which I'll check the LU oil. Once I get a couple good runs on her, I'll check everthing out again.

Yea, most folks skip that one if they can. Hopefully it all works out. Again, I have the same motor and will have to open it up someday. I'll add shift rod to my checklist. Thanks again.
 
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