What makes sense.. Used OB purchase

stupiddog · Nov 29, 2010

Let me say first, that while my budget is pretty smoking tight... I could stretch to handle either a used or rebuilt of the engines I am looking at. New is simply out of the question for now.

The used one runs a bit rough at idle, being stored for a couple years and running on an over rich oil mix, I'm not surprised. It has never had the case cracked and has 'supposedly' low hours. No water in the LU and the cylinder pressure is good and consistent. BUT, It's a 1995 Johnson 130 HP. A 15 year old engine!

For a grand more, I can buy a totally rebuilt engine with only a 60 day warranty. I don't know the mechanic, but it is at a large well know local Marina. My question is, what is the general consensus... Buy what seems to be a solid used engine that has never been rebuilt, saving enough to pay the bulk of a rebuild if needed down the road. Or, pay the premium up front and get a fully rebuilt engine. The Marina claims to use only OME parts.

Looking for opinions here. My budget wants me to make the right decision up front. I don't have any experience with rebuilds.

Thanks

metriccrescentwrench · Nov 29, 2010

Re: What makes sense.. Used OB purchase

It's really impossible to say without a lot of information. HOWEVER, there is nothing whatsoever wrong with a 15 year old engine - outboards last a l-o-n-g time when properly cared for. I've got a 1981 Johnson that runs great, a 1995 is probably just now getting broken in.

If it were me I'd pay a mechanic to check out the used one, you'll probably only have to pay for an hours time. If the mechanic says it's ok I wouldn't hesitate to get it.

mrcj001 · Nov 29, 2010

Re: What makes sense.. Used OB purchase

Main thing on used engines is the compression PSI

If the cylinders are above 100 and consistant you hae something to work with. Other than that, it will need maintance like a water pump, carb rebuild ect. something yourself can do.

BTW, I had to repower over the summer...I bought a 1976 year engine....didnt hesitate buying it after checking compression and hearing it run.

soundchaser · Nov 29, 2010

Re: What makes sense.. Used OB purchase

Did you do a proper compression check with the throttle wide open and all the plugs out? If the used engine has good compression, I'd sooner go after that then a supposedly properly rebuilt engine. rebuilt engines are like a box of chocolates.

Wrencher · Nov 29, 2010

Re: What makes sense.. Used OB purchase

I'd get a compression test done on the used motor....A rebuild is only as good as the parts used for the rebuild and the person that assembled it!

stupiddog · Nov 30, 2010

Re: What makes sense.. Used OB purchase

Thanks for all the replies. I did a compression test and it came out 120 lbs across all four cylinders. The engine had been pickled and stored for the last two years and was being run with a rich oil mix. The plugs were oily and the idle some what rough. I only saw it run on a hose/muffs, it was pumping water fine. The carbs probably need a going through.

I checked the lower unit and there was no milky sign of water. But the fluid was very dark, almost black. I have not seen that before. I haven't checked the charging circuit yet. Shouldn't it read around14 volts at the battery while the engine is running?

1946Zephyr · Nov 30, 2010

Re: What makes sense.. Used OB purchase

the fact that it has had a lot of oil in the mix, is a good thing. It just shows it had better protection on the moving parts. Since the lower unit has no water in it, you're that much further ahead. If the compression is even, then you're good to go. How does the paint look on it?

stupiddog · Nov 30, 2010

Re: What makes sense.. Used OB purchase

The paint is so-so. The cover and exhaust housing has been repainted by a neighbor with an OMC rattle can it seems. The block is original paint, no signs of blistered/overheated paint.

The tilt trim assembly has a fair bit of corrosion on the cylinders. That concerns me. It works fine and does not leak down though. I have a line on a used assembly that would be easy to swap in if I need to. There is very little rust/corrosion anywhere else. The trim switch mounted on the engine is broken. It only works for down. The switch at the control box works fine. replacing the engine mounted switch should be easy.

He is asking 2K for the motor.

jonesg · Nov 30, 2010

Re: What makes sense.. Used OB purchase

$2K is too high by $500.

metriccrescentwrench · Nov 30, 2010

Re: What makes sense.. Used OB purchase

stupiddog said:
. Shouldn't it read around14 volts at the battery while the engine is running?

Yes, somewhere in that range.

stupiddog · Nov 30, 2010

Re: What makes sense.. Used OB purchase

jonesg said:
$2K is too high by $500.

I have had a real hard time finding any comparable to evaluate his asking price. Where do you get such info. I have found several 115's with v4 lower units and most of those were in the 2000 to 2500 range. Haven't been able to find but one other 130 hp close to year 1995. The NADA pricing looks way unrealistically low. This one started at 2500.

Thanks

Silvertip · Nov 30, 2010

Re: What makes sense.. Used OB purchase

Outboard engines don't generally die -- their owners kill them. If the engine has been sitting that long, by all means plan on carburetor rebuilds. Lean mixture on a two stroke motor also means less than normal oil is getting to the engine and bang -- it is turned into a great anchor. Even the rebuilt engine can suffer the same damage that caused the rebuild in the first place. If it wasn't determined why the engine needed rebuilding and the cause corrected, it can happen again. Many times the cause is carburetion.

dazk14 · Nov 30, 2010

Re: What makes sense.. Used OB purchase

The compression may drop a bit when the extra oil is burned off.

Did you remove all plugs when it was tested?

As stated earlier $1500 is about right.

What is the year of the rebuilt unit and HP. They should stand behind their rebuilds for WaYY longer than 60 days.

If they did a low end rebuild and simply installed new rings, you should run from that deal.

A quality rebuild would punch out all holes, new pistons and ALL new bearings including the 3 crankshaft bearings. New thermos, carb kits, water pump and pressure test the lower unit, etc..

Most dealers would be looking for ~$3500 with a 1 year warranty.

1946Zephyr · Nov 30, 2010

Re: What makes sense.. Used OB purchase

Pricing may also depend on the area you're located. If you're way out in the sticks, where there are 5 outboards for sale in a 500 square mile area, then the higher price may be apropriate, but, if you're in the big cities, there is more competition. I would see if you can offer $1500 for it anyways. $2000 would be okay, if it was in top notch condition and there was no corrosion to be seen. If he's set on his price, then see if he would fix the T/T switch that's broken and clean it all up for you.

stupiddog · Nov 30, 2010

Re: What makes sense.. Used OB purchase

The rebuild is not yet available & they want a deposit before they start. It is a 1997 115 with a v4 foot. The mech. said he would fit a V6 Ft. on it for me. $3,000 plus tax. I have not bothered to go down that path any further after hearing only a 60 day warranty. Seems to have limited confidence in their own builds!

I did have the used engine run for a few minutes on muffs before removing all the plugs and doing the compression test. At 120 lbs per cylinder it looks OK.

The used engine is at rock bottom price wise ($2,000 down from $2,500). The owner now has it at a marina and ready to trade towards a smaller 50 hp engine for a small fishing boat he has. Can't blame him. But he is giving me last right of refusal before trading it in. He has been real straight forward about the engine and I am inclined to trust him.

jbjennings · Nov 30, 2010

Re: What makes sense.. Used OB purchase

Just my opinion:

The black oil in the lower unit is no big deal---it just needs changing. Water in the lower unit IS a big deal. Just checking compression alone is not enough for me because a good used lower unit is usually as expensive as a used powerhead and twice as hard to find. You were wise to check it!

I would go with the used engine rather than the rebuilt one, and would surely clean the carbs as silvertip suggested and have the lower unit oil changed and a new water pump impeller put in. $2000 seems a bit high to me as well, but either way, a '95 2-stroke isn't all that old to me either. My '99 model that I purchased brand new is still "brand new" to me----and runs that way as well.

I would only buy a rebuilt engine from someone I really trusted to know what they're doing.
Good luck,
JBJ

1946Zephyr · Dec 1, 2010

Re: What makes sense.. Used OB purchase

If that motor ran for a few minutes before you tested the compression, then I would say those are true readings. I would trust that engine.

stupiddog · Dec 1, 2010

Re: What makes sense.. Used OB purchase

Sunday I will go make sure the system is charging correctly, if it is.. I am going to buy it. Then I'll order some carb rebuild kits / water pump and lower unit oil.

Thank you all for the advice, I appreciate it. Scott

What makes sense.. Used OB purchase

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