Legitimate warranty request or not? need expert opinion

S

ss9940_2

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Hi there fellow Iboaters!

I would like to hear your expert oppinion on a warranty request. The engine on the pictures is a rapidomarine 2010 longblock that did about 20 hours; my customer contacted me and sent me these pictures... Now, what I would like to know is if you think that this warranty request is legitimate or not (considering that i have to send the block back to the states - Rapidomarine if it is). What could have caused the damage you see?

picture 1
picture 2
picture 3
picture 4
picture 5
picture 6
picture 7
picture 8
picture 9
picture 10

Our mechanic has some points:

- if the oil mixed up with water, the only option is that either the block or head cracked; cause: overheating
- if the head gasked failed (that's his theory), the water would hydrolock the engine, not mix with oil
- 4 cylinders + the top of the engine are rusty, that means saltwater must have been in them (again, impossible if only a gasked would fail

I emailed all those pictures to Raul at rapidomarine, but there was no answer... Hope they're still in business...

What do you think?

Thanx

Alex
 
G

GLENN M

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Re: Legitimate warranty request or not? need expert opinion

not saying it hasent happened, but ive been a chevy mechanic for twenty years never seen cracked block or head from over heating on sbc. that to me looks like it was sunk.
 
jerryjerry05

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Re: Legitimate warranty request or not? need expert opinion

If it's only on the one side I'd say the manifold(no pics)riser might be the problem.
How old is it.They can be bad from the box if it was new.The head gasket could have failed.Test the manifold.The motor doesn't look like it's beyond repair.Clean it up and put some transmission oil in the cylinders till you can fire it.
Of course drain the old oil and turn it over circulating the fresh into the passages.
 
S

ss9940_2

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Re: Legitimate warranty request or not? need expert opinion

Hmmm... the head can crack if your stern sucks up a plastic bag that blocks the water intake.... after you stop, the bag swims away + cool water enters that can cause the shock and the head can crack... i've ordered 2 sets of heads cause of that....

Manifolds can't cause that; the water that enters, stays in the cylinders (hydrolock) - or am i wrong?

Alex
 
R

rodbolt

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Re: Legitimate warranty request or not? need expert opinion

manifolds,risers and riser gasket leaks can cause exactly that.
doesnt look like its a rapidiomarine problem.
unless the heads were cracked when placed in service typically water injestion is specifically NOT a warrenty issue.
 
choochooharley

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Re: Legitimate warranty request or not? need expert opinion

The one picture you show had a broken head gasket....also was it a short block or a long block from rapido.....that would make a diff in warrenty as well
 
T

TilliamWe

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Re: Legitimate warranty request or not? need expert opinion

jerryjerry05 said:
If it's only on the one side I'd say the manifold(no pics)riser might be the problem...
Click to expand...

That's it, and they left it sitting with water in the engine. Let me guess, that's what happened to the engine they replaced, right?
 
Don S

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Re: Legitimate warranty request or not? need expert opinion

I'm sorry, water is not going to fill the exhaust manifold and 4 cylinders and leak into the oil without hydrolocking the engine. Just not going to happen. You put water in a cylinder of a good engine and it will just sit on top of the piston. Even if it did let a few drops of water past the piston, there wouldn't be enough water to fill the crankcase and cause the oil to get that milky and the block full of water enough to rust the block shown in the picture below.
Plus, water will not get into the engine through the exhaust while running. The exhaust blows the water out the back.

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SuperNova

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Re: Legitimate warranty request or not? need expert opinion

The head gasket is blown...no question.....but it blew between cylinders and maybe up into that water jacket passage. Would account for poor running and some excess steam, but not the water in the oil or rust in the lifter valley.

My thought would be a cracked block...probably not from overheating. The exact area of the crack as well as the nature of the crack would have to be determined to verify whether you got it that way from Rapido or if it was something the customer could have caused.

I know you said it was a 2010 engine, but was it installed this past winter or over the summer?
 
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ss9940_2

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Re: Legitimate warranty request or not? need expert opinion

Exactly our mechanics words, Don... You can't get enough water through the manifolds to the cylinder and then to the oil pan to cause rust / milky oil like that... Something HAD to crack... either the block or heads... Our mechanic said he's 90% sure it's the head (cause all 4 cylinders are rusty)... If the head gasked would fail, only 2 cylinders would rust, the other 2 would be shiny...

@TilliamWe - yes, that's the new (rapido) engine...

@choochooharley - the engine is a longblock from rapido...

So, you guys think that rapido will certainly reject warranty? Like I said, I don't want to send the engine back to US to find out that the damage caused isn't covered by warranty...

Alex
 
S

ss9940_2

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Re: Legitimate warranty request or not? need expert opinion

SuperNova said:
I know you said it was a 2010 engine, but was it installed this past winter or over the summer?
Click to expand...

It was installed this summer, i think in june... So freezing damage isn't an option...

Alex
 
Don S

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Re: Legitimate warranty request or not? need expert opinion

What did the cylinders look like on the starboard side?
 
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ss9940_2

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Re: Legitimate warranty request or not? need expert opinion

SuperNova said:
The head gasket is blown...no question.....but it blew between cylinders and maybe up into that water jacket passage. Would account for poor running and some excess steam, but not the water in the oil or rust in the lifter valley.

My thought would be a cracked block...probably not from overheating. The exact area of the crack as well as the nature of the crack would have to be determined to verify whether you got it that way from Rapido or if it was something the customer could have caused.
Click to expand...

Hmmm... he contacted me at the end of the boating season, so I think he was using the engine during the summer... Would something like that be even possible? That he would use the engine till the end of the season with no problems and later found an error like that?

Alex
 
S

ss9940_2

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Re: Legitimate warranty request or not? need expert opinion

Don S said:
What did the cylinders look like on the starboard side?
Click to expand...

Don't know... these pictures were sent to me by email; his mechanic took only 1 head off i think... But i suspect the side looks similar, considering that the boat sits in saltwater and the system was contaminated by milky, saltish oil...

I can still ask him to send me the pictures though...
 
Don S

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Re: Legitimate warranty request or not? need expert opinion

If the cylinders are rusty in the other side, I can't imagine manifolds on both sides failing at the same time and doing the same thing, and a cracked block is not going to put water into the cylinders.
 
Bondo

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Re: Legitimate warranty request or not? need expert opinion

and a cracked block is not going to put water into the cylinders.
Click to expand...

Ayuh,... But heads cracked from an Overheat, sudden quench, as the water comes back can do that...
I threw away a set of heads this summer that were cracked to bits in the valve pockets from such a thing...
 
S

ss9940_2

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Re: Legitimate warranty request or not? need expert opinion

Don S said:
If the cylinders are rusty in the other side, I can't imagine manifolds on both sides failing at the same time and doing the same thing, and a cracked block is not going to put water into the cylinders.
Click to expand...

Hmmm... that is also true... So what would your best scenario look like? A faulty manifold would cause water in cylinders then what? A head gasked going bad that leaked all the water into the oil? It just doesn't fit together... A head gasket failing cause of a hydrolock?? Is that even possible?

Alex
 
S

ss9940_2

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Re: Legitimate warranty request or not? need expert opinion

Bond-o said:
Ayuh,... But heads cracked from an Overheat, sudden quench, as the water comes back can do that...
I threw away a set of heads this summer that were cracked to bits in the valve pockets from such a thing...
Click to expand...

Yup, that's why I ordered 2 sets of heads this year... A plastic bag is quite troublesome if it sucks up to the water intake... After you stop, the bag swims away and cool water quenches the heads...

Alex
 
A

Angrywasp

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Re: Legitimate warranty request or not? need expert opinion

The condition of the pushrods and the other internal surfaces leads me to think it was filled with water and then left to sit. Any pictures of the bottom end of the motor? Unless the head gasket completely and suddenly failed (which you would notice) then there should be some evidence of the water leaking into cylinders while running (which would show up as carbon free points on the pistons due to steam cleaning). It looks exactly like my mustangs motor did when I pulled the heads after overheating it and cooking the headgaskets.
 
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