Please verify my HS needle (Pic Attached)

i386 · Oct 30, 2010

This is the high-speed needle from a 33HP Ski-Twin. It doesn't look very "needly" to me. Is it supposed to be this blunt or did it break off?

I've had the motor 4 years but it's been sitting while I restored a boat. It idles fine but no power at WOT. Suspecting something in the high-speed circuit in the carb. Just want to verify this needle before I start tearing stuff off.

oldcatamount · Oct 30, 2010

Re: Please verify my HS needle (Pic Attached)

I'd bet that's the way it supposed to look. High speed "needle valves" are always blunt looking like that one.

boobie · Oct 30, 2010

Re: Please verify my HS needle (Pic Attached)

From the pict it looks to me like it is broke off. The pict isn't that clear but it looks like it has a jagged edge. I can't remember high speed needles being that blunt on the end. They must have some taper to them. If it's got a nice SMOOTH taper it should be okay.

Silvertip · Oct 30, 2010

Re: Please verify my HS needle (Pic Attached)

Very true that it is broken off which also accounts for the WOT issue. The actual needle now has nothing to hold it in position so high speed operation is questionable.

i386 · Oct 30, 2010

Re: Please verify my HS needle (Pic Attached)

Here's a few more pics if it helps...

a70eliminator · Oct 30, 2010

Re: Please verify my HS needle (Pic Attached)

It's possible the other piece is plugging the jet, you should be able to look in there with a penlight and see either the seat or the broken piece, or just pull the carb apart.

boobie · Oct 30, 2010

Re: Please verify my HS needle (Pic Attached)

Now you got me guessing. It still has a little "***" on the end of it and the high speed jets were always sort of blunt. It does look a little worn but look down in the carb where the jet goes and make sure you don't see any brass down there. If not, screw it back in leaving the packing loose, bottom it out and back off 1/2 turn. Just snug up packing and take for a lake ride, adjusting it either way to smooth out mtr. One must use his "ears" when adjusting these jets. This adjusting is done at WOT. Two people in boat. One steering and one adjusting.

i386 · Oct 30, 2010

Re: Please verify my HS needle (Pic Attached)

I did find a "sweet spot" while at WOT, it did give a few more rpms but not much. I've got the motor sitting on the stand now. Some time tomorrow I'll pull the carb. Being an electric start, I have to get some stuff out of the way to access the nuts holding the carb on. I'm curious to see if there are any fragments in there and how the main jet looks.

Looking through my Seloc manual I'm seeing illustrations of the high-speed needle. It's much squattier than the idle needle but does have a definite point. I'm not sure there is enough there to break off, but it looks like it needs replacing to me. I'll know more tomorrow.

One of these days I'll learn to quickly tell the difference between running on one cylinder and a high-speed carb circuit problem. This old Evinrude runs pretty smooth either way.

rjezuit · Oct 30, 2010

Re: Please verify my HS needle (Pic Attached)

What year 33hp? Rick

Vic.S · Oct 30, 2010

Re: Please verify my HS needle (Pic Attached)

rjezuit said:
What year 33hp? Rick

I think there may be a very tiny clue to that in his signature!

boobie · Oct 30, 2010

Re: Please verify my HS needle (Pic Attached)

Is it running on both cyls ?? Those mtrs run pretty smooth on one cyl only. I assumed it was running on both but you know what assumption is.

kfa4303 · Oct 30, 2010

Re: Please verify my HS needle (Pic Attached)

Hey i386. I have a '66 33 hp with the same type of blunt high speed "needle" so I'd bet yours is ok as is unless they changed them significantly over the years.

i386 · Oct 30, 2010

Re: Please verify my HS needle (Pic Attached)

kfa4303 said:
Hey i386. I have a '66 33 hp with the same type of blunt high speed "needle" so I'd bet yours is ok as is unless they changed them significantly over the years.

Hey thanks for that info. I think I will still pull the carb and have a look at the high-speed jet to make sure it's clear.

i386 · Oct 30, 2010

Re: Please verify my HS needle (Pic Attached)

boobie said:
Is it running on both cyls ?? Those mtrs run pretty smooth on one cyl only. I assumed it was running on both but you know what assumption is.

I put new points in it this morning and checked spark. It was good on both cyls. Ran fine idling in the bucket. I even put my inline spark tester on each wire for a few mins each cyl.

You are right though. It does run pretty smooth on just one cyl. (just no power) It's tough for me to tell the diff between one cyl and stopped up high-speed jet.

old boat 54 · Oct 31, 2010

Re: Please verify my HS needle (Pic Attached)

i386 said:
Hey thanks for that info. I think I will still pull the carb and have a look at the high-speed jet to make sure it's clear.

+1 on that. I have a 66 33hp Johnson motor. The carb in your pictures looks very similar to the one on my 33. The high speed needle in it is very blunt but a little more rounded.

bktheking · Oct 31, 2010

Re: Please verify my HS needle (Pic Attached)

The tip on your needle has been broken off, image from shop.evinrude.com shows it.

i386 · Oct 31, 2010

Re: Please verify my HS needle (Pic Attached)

Well shoot, here we go...

I removed the carb this morning, and took off the float bowl. The high speed nozzle was free and clear. In fact, that hole is so big it would take a lot to stop it up. It has the old cork float. The float was not soaked full of gas. Doesn't matter much now as I accidentally broke the #$%$ out of it anyway. It was pretty fragile. Now, I did have a Sierra carb kit (the one without the float included). The kit contains a needle, needle seat, washer, and a tiny wire/spring clip. The BRP drawings do not show this little clip/retainer/spring. The needle/seat valve in the carb is missing this. It's my understanding that you need that in order for the float to pull the needle out of the seat. I installed the new needle/seat valve and actuated it with the float with and without the retainer/spring/clip while blowing into the fuel inlet nipple. It worked better with the retainer/spring thing in there.

Can anyone confirm these findings? Since I didn't find the high-speed nozzle to be blocked I'm still not sure why I'm not getting enough power/revs at WOT.

Almost forgot to mention...

I bought another carb on eBay for a nice price. I cracked the little plastic control panel 4 years ago when I let go of the starter rope handle. The "new" carb has a control panel intact. It also comes with a new unopened OMC carb kit with a float. So I have that on the way.

bktheking · Oct 31, 2010

Re: Please verify my HS needle (Pic Attached)

Did you replace the high speed needle?

i386 · Oct 31, 2010

Re: Please verify my HS needle (Pic Attached)

bktheking said:
Did you replace the high speed needle?

Not yet... I don't expect the "new" carb to come in until sometime later this week. At that point I will compare needles and go from there. I'll have the option of continuing to use mine, use the "new" one, or order a brand new one.

i386 · Nov 10, 2010

Re: Please verify my HS needle (Pic Attached)

The "new" carb came with an OEM rebuild kit. The needle looked the same as mine.

I went ahead and rebuilt my carb. Even removed those 2 aluminum plugs and cleaned all the passages behind them. Blew everything out with compressed air and installed new plugs, packing, washers, gaskets, etc... I didn't really notice anything stopped up. The high-speed nozzle on this carb is huge. It would take a lot to stop it up.

I double-checked the compression today just prior to running it in a bucket with the freshly rebuilt carb. 100PSI in each cyl. is what I get.

I can't say it runs any better or any worse than it did before in the bucket. It purrs like a kitten. I still don't know what it's going to do at WOT.

Tomorrow, I'm going to go through the link and sync process. Maybe I can back it down the ramp on Sunday to test it weather permitting.

Please verify my HS needle (Pic Attached)

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