When to quit?

Folks,

I have this 57 10 hp seahorse that I have been working on for a month.I got it for 25$ and have about $200 in it (mostly cruise a day tank and parts). I have replaced the entire ignition system and rebuilt the carb twice. Once I had it running for 2 minutes. Otherwise it will occasionally run for a second or two when I pull the rope. I have posted here several times, and despite good advice nothing has helped.

I was thinking of buying a rebuilt carb but it seems like a waste of money at this point.Taking it to an $80 an hour mechanic seems silly. I am not a great small engine mechanic but I have worked on motors in the past. When do you just put a for sale sign on it and go buy a more modern motor?

Re: When to quit?

Well my friend, you have a fuel problem.
My guess is the carb settings are not right.

Re: When to quit?

If you are repairing it to sell and make a few bucks, you are already behind the eight ball.
If you bought it to repair and use as your own and to improve your skills you are right on track.
It only takes three things to make your engine run, compression, spark and fuel. The first two are easy to check, are they ok? The last can some times be hard to find and repair. As,54fleetwin stated, it sounds like you still have a carb problem. Can you describe how you overhauled the carb?

Re: When to quit?

did fuel tank pumping up and holding pressure? did you replace all the fuel hoses, with alcohol resistant hose? sre you sure the air and fuel lines are not crossed. did you use a carb rebuild kit. did you rebuild fuel tank? have you read the TOP SECRET FILE?

Re: When to quit?

So far plugs, points, new coils, condensors, plugs and wires. I see a spark when I pull the cord though I realize that doesn't mean much. Crank key is in place and flywheel is torqued.

I took the carb apart twice and removed gaskets, needle valves and all the jets. I soaked it twice in Gunk carb cleaner (once overnight) and then blew the jets out with aerosol carb cleaner as I do not have compressed air. I got a few filaments from a stripped lamp cord and ran it gently through all the orifices/jets. I checked the float and no air goes thru when carb is upside down and it does when right side up. The float floats in water. I adjusted float height as directed. I put it all together in reverse order as per the directions and replaced all the gaskets. It was in really nasty shape when I first bought it. I adjusted the needle valves as instructed in the directions.

The throttle handle has a gear on it that is a liitle worn. I cant line up the needle with the words on the handle perfectly. I can find the shift selection and turn it a bit to "start". I have also tried it on full open. After several pulls I can remove a plug and smell gas. I think that the linkage from the throttle to the magneto may be the issue as the spark may be too far advance or retarded.

I have squirted carb cleaner in the spark plug hole and not been able to get it to run.

Could the reed valve be bad?

I bought this thing for a little Jon boat- not to flip it. I'd spend the $100 on a rebuilt carb it if that would fix it. I am getting alittle frustrated so I pushed it out of the garage and put the cowl back on.

Any suggestions appreciated.
Thanks
Frank

Re: When to quit?

Don't give up on it now !! You come to far. Listen to the people hear, they will help you get er running.

Re: When to quit?

The tank has lovely pressure.I get gas in the carb bowl. I replaced the hoses and use alcohol free gas 20:1 with a touch of lead additive. I put new o rings in the connector. I read the top secret files and used a rebuild kit.

I had an old VW in the 70s that gota really mucked up carb and several rebuilds never fixed the problem until it was replaced. Iwonder if that is the problem.

I had an old string trimmer once that wouldn't run because the screen covering the exhaust port was carboned up. Do such things happen to boats?

FB

Re: When to quit?

Sounds like you have the ign system covered. What kind of compression do you have?
When you overhauled the carb did you remove the core plug on top of the carb and clean the passages underneith? Did you set you low speed jet 1 1/2 turns out from lightly seated and the high speed jet 3/4 turn out?
Don't worry about the lettering on the handle. You should only be able to turn the throttle part ways open in neutral before it hits the stop, open it all the way while in neutral, that's where you want to start it when cold.
try squirting some fuel mixture into the carb, pull the choke on and pull the starter a couple of times and see what happens.

Re: When to quit?

I think I have it set currently at 11/2 out and 1 out per instructions that came with carb kit, but i will try 3/4. I am gettin 80 in top cylinder and 80 in bottom on compression. This strikes me as a little low, but they are the same.

I do notice quite alot of oil in the water in the barrel that I have the motor in.

Re: When to quit?

Low speed = 1 1/2 turns out
High speed jet = 3/4 turns out.
Compression will probably come up a little when you get it running, but should be good enough to start it.

Re: When to quit?

Get a spark tester and make sure that you are getting a spark that will jump at least a 3/8" gap.
They are less than $10- at NAPA or equivalent.

Re: When to quit?

Check for air leaks and do a link and synch - if it still doesn't run, consider a different carb. I had an old 5.5hp Johnson which I did everything to and couldn't get it to stay running. I even replaced the leaf plate. Finally switched carbs and she ran like a champ. All I can figure is maybe an invisible crack in the carb or a clog somewhere which just wouldn't clean out.

Re: When to quit?

Block the carb throat with your palm and pull the cord.
Fuel should be flowing.
If not, you most likely either have a blocked carb or more likely severe leakage between the crank cases (center crankshaft seal/bearing).

Re: When to quit?

FHB said:

Folks,

I have this 57 10 hp seahorse that I have been working on for a month.I got it for 25$ and have about $200 in it (mostly cruise a day tank and parts). I have replaced the entire ignition system and rebuilt the carb twice. Once I had it running for 2 minutes. Otherwise it will occasionally run for a second or two when I pull the rope. I have posted here several times, and despite good advice nothing has helped.

I was thinking of buying a rebuilt carb but it seems like a waste of money at this point.Taking it to an $80 an hour mechanic seems silly. I am not a great small engine mechanic but I have worked on motors in the past. When do you just put a for sale sign on it and go buy a more modern motor?

Click to expand...

My opinion is to get yourself a good running motor so you can spend some time on the water. It's nothing wrong with having a project motor (or two, or 50 as some members have). Just realize that's what it is. Good luck.
-jasper

Re: When to quit?

jasper60103 said:

( .....or 50 as some members have).

Click to expand...

....but don't forget the guys who take it to a real extreme....

Re: When to quit?

Someone suggested a sync and link. I have no idea what that is. I did not find anything in the top secret file. CAn someone fill me in on where to look?

I bought a spark tester today.

I have a 98 Johnson 115 on a Stratos fish and ski boat that is my fun on the water boat. I am not really sure why I am working on this in the first place but it has been fun.

Thanks
FB

Re: When to quit?

Please disregard above. I found link and sync in the search engine. I bet that is what is wrong. I will order a manual and check back with you all after I try it.

Thanks

Frank

Re: When to quit?

Eighty psi on a pull start motor isn't bad. Even better is the fact that the numbers are dead even.

Make dure that you points are set exactly at the peak of the cam lobe. It doesn't take much of a variation to result in hard starting.

Also, try choking the motor halfway, instead of starting in the full choke position.



???

Re: When to quit?

FHB said:

Please disregard above. I found link and sync in the search engine. I bet that is what is wrong. I will order a manual and check back with you all after I try it.

Thanks

Frank

Click to expand...

The link and sink could be way out but it should still start. People forget that link and sync on those old motors doesn't come into play until they are throttled up (within reason). I have a few motors at home that will start without the cam even touching the carb roller just from plain old wear. I have an 18 in my garage right now where the previous owner added a 1 inch piece of metal to the magneto bar to compensate for it being bent and it would still start, the link and sync was off by an inch!!!! A reed problem, possible, but what is the likelyhood of a problem on BOTH cylinders. The reedplates are seperate for each cylinder, they will run on one cylinder so that's probably not it.


Couple of things come to mind, fuel- choke may not be operating properly for cold start. Spray come mix into the carb and see if she fires.

Second- double check your points gap, .020, anything more or less may throw timing off enough not to fire.

- ANOTHER thought, these motors won't fire if the high speed needle is adjusted wrong. When turned to the start position for cold start it's the high speed part of the carb that comes into play here, not the low. Make sure your packing is new for both needs and that it's backed out enough for it to fire.

Re: When to quit?

Have you thought about the possibility of bad reed valves? I don't claim to know much about these older small Johnsons, but when I was a kid my dad had a '58 Johnson 7.5 which I used constantly on a small aluminum boat. One day it just wouldn't run, my dad took it to a mechanic who said he replaced the reed valves and after that it ran good as always.

BTW, it's great that you're getting that vintage engine going. One of these days I'd like to find a Johnson like the one we used to have and put it on a small boat for fishing. Kind of the opposite end of the spectrum from my Checkmate.