1970 115hp Viability Testing

Going to start to check out a 1970 115 (115ESL70D) that came on my new to me boat to decide if its worth putting money into. PO said it ran and shifted fine but hasn't been run in at least a year.
The starter is hit and miss on working, can I get a usable comp test using a rope to spin it over?
How long can I let it sit without oil in the lower unit w/o causing/risking damage? I ask since I don't know if I'll be able to find it locally and may have to order. Also any Idea how much I will need to refill it?

Re: 1970 115hp Viability Testing

Well I got a new starter on it and have it cranking.

I still haven't bought a comp tester so I haven't checked that yet but I did tinker with it enough to deduce that it has no spark.

In starting through the manual trouble shooting I have a good fuse in the inline holder before the solenoid and power to the purple wire on term#8.

The next step was to bypass the safety circuit by jumpering from terminals 7 and 9. Heres where I get into trouble, theres no wires attached to 7. I traced through the wiring diagram and found that it should have a purple with a blk stripe wire from the pulse pack and a same color wire from the safety circuit.

I started tracing wires and found the two wires that I think are suppose to be there (they both just look like they're blk) but they are both run to block grounds in seperate spots, and one has a factory looking ring terminal thats too big to of been hooked up terminal strip.

I also found a red wire from the solenoid thats suppose to go to the 6 terminal with a wire from the rectifier. This wire was not attached, taped up, and stuffed in under the rest of the wires.

The pulse pack looks to be a used replacement pack since it has the word "good" written on it in paint pen.

Finally my questions:

Could this be an incorrect pack that someone has retrofitted and thats why the wiring differences?
Did someone just hook it up wrong? and what could be burned up from me trying to crank it up this way?

Also is my best course of action just to correct the wiring to what the manual says and continue on through the trouble shooting process?

Any direction on this would be greatly appreciated.

Re: 1970 115hp Viability Testing

An original factory manual is almost a necessity if you want exact information. You can get one from Ken Cook Co., in Milwaukee. They have wiring diagrams in the back. You can check original factory parts lists online at: epc.brp.com. Many of the part numbers on that original parts list may have newer superceded numbers-your Bombardier dealer can help you on those. I wouldn't put any $ into that engine till you know if it has good compression on all 4 cyls. New factory compression may have been as much as 125.

Re: 1970 115hp Viability Testing

Thanks for the reply.

I'm going to get a tester and check this weekend if it ever stops raining.

I already have an OEM manual and the wiring diagram in the back is the only reason I've got this far on the wiring.

I just worry that the pulse pack has been retrofitted and by moving all the wires back to where the manual says they're suppose to be would cause me to burn something up. FWIW the pack on the motor doesn't look anything like the ones I've seen pictured in my researching.

Re: 1970 115hp Viability Testing

Ok comp test done 125 125 120 and 115

Also popped the drain plug out of the lower unit and drained a bit out to see what it looks like. I almost got mad thinking it was running straight water out at first but then made the connection that the thinner oil is a lighter color. In fact I would of wondered if the PO had just changed it if it wasn't for the tiny bit of sludge that came out.

I also noticed that while doing the comp test the prop would stop turning after a short bit of cranking so I'm thinking the LU is good.

So now I guess I'm onto figuring out why the no spark.

Any advice on the above wiring questions or how I should proceed would be greatly appreciated.

Re: 1970 115hp Viability Testing

If the wiring is different, it is possible you may not have the year/model you think it is. What is the model number off the serial plate? Your compression looks good-one cyl is a little low. Once you get it running, you might run a can of Engine Tuner through it and see if the compression comes up any on that low cyl.

Re: 1970 115hp Viability Testing

From the tag on transom bracket best as I can read it,

Model# 15ESL70D Serial# J3340195

On the compression how big of a difference does it make that its cold vs. warmed up? Which is the way I thought you were suppose to do it but I have no choice in this case.

Re: 1970 115hp Viability Testing

well, a manual will definitely help you out. Should be able to read from your terminals with the key in the on position if you are getting volts back there. If you are and if you have done a spark test I would then do a resistance test on the ignition coil to see if that is preventing spark from getting to the plugs. If that checks out then have the pack checked with a DVA meter. If that checks out then possibly a problem in the sensor unit. I'm not an expert mechanic, but have this motor and have done a lot of troubleshooting when I first got mine. Mine wouldn't spark consistently. Ended up being a faulty jumper wire to bypass the clipper switch. Spent about $500 bucks on parts, when it was just a 2 inch faulty wire.

Also, from what I've been told, the compression readings on these motors tend to run lower than others. I would consider those numbers good, but guess I would see what the experts would say(FR).

Re: 1970 115hp Viability Testing

Yes, it is a 1970. I think you missed an extra 1 in the model number:
115ESL70D. CDI electronics has a simple troubleshooting guide on their website for the ignition system on your engine. Check it out: http://www.cdielectronics.com/

Re: 1970 115hp Viability Testing

Thanks I'll give those a try and don't get me wrong I appreciate the replies and help on this since I've been looking around it seems even if I have to replace all the electronics on this its still cheaper than trying to repower this old boat.

I'm just trying to avoid burning something up that may not be bad in the process.

On a side note, I bought and have this one. That is what we're talking about having a factory manual right? Just checking to make sure I'm on the same page manual wise.

Re: 1970 115hp Viability Testing

Yep. It looks just like mine.

Re: 1970 115hp Viability Testing

Alright maybe this will help,

The pulse pack is a prestolite IDG3001 it has 7 wires coming out of it as opposed to the 4 shown in the diagram. Two blk/wht str and a blk/grn str going to the stator diagram doesn't show the blk/grn. Blue going to the coil jct at the terminal block. Purple going to the safety circuit at the termblk. and Two blk going to ground at the engine block where the pack mounts.

Does that help clear up the picture of what I'm working with?

Also as I tried to go through the trouble shooting from the CDI site it says check for spark between the coil and dist cap. does the coil HT lead just push into the cap or is it a screw on type connection? Theres very little room to separate it, due to the flywheel, at the cap and I don't want to get too rough and break what don't need fixing.

Re: 1970 115hp Viability Testing

Also the DVA tester to check the trigger sensor thats more than just a regular digital volt meter right? Is there a way to test that w/ a regular volt meter similar to checking points opening like I've done on the small tiller motors I'm ised to maybe?

Re: 1970 115hp Viability Testing

Was Looking through the parts catalog at the Johnson.com and noticed the pulse pack on my 115 is the spitting image of the one shown in the parts diagram for a 71-72 125hp. Anyone have a wiring diagram they'd want to share? Or would it possibly be fruitful to just buy a 72' 125 manual?

I'll also add that I went to check the safety circuit (clipper?) per the instructions in the manual and it only has three wires coming out of it (forth if count the ground) so I was at a loss on how to check it to rule it out.

Re: 1970 115hp Viability Testing

1972 125 manual ordered guess I'll go from there when it gets here.

I'd still like any ideas on any of the above questions.

Re: 1970 115hp Viability Testing

I have this motor. I was busy today. I'll see if I can help you tomorrow.

Re: 1970 115hp Viability Testing

TruckDrivingFool said:

Also the DVA tester to check the trigger sensor thats more than just a regular digital volt meter right? Is there a way to test that w/ a regular volt meter similar to checking points opening like I've done on the small tiller motors I'm ised to maybe?

Click to expand...

The pulse goes too fast for a regular meter to measure. DVA meter is the only way to test the pack. Again, I'll try to respond more tomorrow. It's late for me. Going to bed.

Re: 1970 115hp Viability Testing

Look at the stator on that 115 before you go much further. That needs 12 volts to energize it then that voltage goes to the power pack to get "jacked up". Stators go bad a lot. Pulse packs... not so much.

An ohm test should tell you a lot. If you look in your book it has the values.

Re: 1970 115hp Viability Testing

The boat is a 72' and was told it was a police boat so perhaps they hung a 70 motor on it in 72 and upgraded the electronics and this will all make more sense once I have a closer diagram.

Once again thanks for the replies I do appreciate the help.

Re: 1970 115hp Viability Testing

backyard mechanic said:

Look at the stator on that 115 before you go much further. That needs 12 volts to energize it then that voltage goes to the power pack to get "jacked up". Stators go bad a lot. Pulse packs... not so much.

An ohm test should tell you a lot. If you look in your book it has the values.

Click to expand...

NO, NO, NO! Stator has nothing to do with starting this motor. The stator is responsible for charging the battery, but nothing to do with ignition. Stators do not go bad a lot, but the pulse packs on these do.