Johnson 225 running rough at all rpm ranges

I have a 2001 225 Ocean pro 225 hp that recently started running rough. I bought the motor from a friend who used it one season and then stored it for 8 years. I hired a reputable mechanic to mount the motor on a 23 Clearwater in March. The boat was a repo with engine removed so i had the tank professionally drained and cleaned. The mechanic also installed new fuel lines (and ball), new pick up and anti siphon valve. Also, all carbs were removed and rebuilt. Somehow, the fuel solenoid was missing so it has a new fuel solenoid. After about 25 hours of it running perfectly this summer i broke down with no spark. My reputable mechanic was on vaca so a friend with minimal exp. took a look and convinced me it was a bad stator. After replacing, still no spark. When mechanic returned, turned out to be a bad wiring harness. After replacement, motor ran fine for weeks until i noticed one mild but definately noticable hickup last weekend while at cruising speed. This weekend after a good run I noticed it running slightly rough after powering down to come into the marina. It was running a little rough but didn't stall. I noticed back at the dock that the rpms were down to 8-900 at idle in neutral where it was usually 11-1300.. The next a.m. we headed out to the river in hopes of it being dirty plugs or somthing and when i ran up the rpms it coughed and spit a little but seemed to clear out and seemed to run ok at 4200 rpms for about 5 - 8 mins. Well after going through a slow zone, the skipping came back and then remained throughout the rpm range. seemed to be popping and skipping but never stalled ( we squeezed the primer ball with no difference)( has new seperator). lost about 2-300 rpms off WOT. It also had moments where it clears up and seems like its gonna run fine but no skipping comes back. No alarms (tho all guages are new and work fine). cash is tight so i'd like to begin troubleshooting this one myself. I appreciate any advise offered...

Re: Johnson 225 running rough at all rpm ranges

Head bolts should have been torqued down to 18 to 20 foot pounds in the following sequence. Check them.

5...6 (Continue on in a circular pattern)

1...2 (Center portion of head)

4...3

Remove spark plugs for inspection. They should all look alike. Check for minute traces of water. Describe their condition.

With plugs still removed, rig a spark tester so that you can have a 7/16" gap for the spark to jump (important). The spark should jump that gap with a strong blue lightning like flame... a real SNAP! Does it?

The wiring harness has a Black/Yellow wire (kill circuit) leading to the powerpack, disconnect it. Connect either a DC volt meter set to its lowest range or a ammeter between the wiring harness Black/Yellow wire and a powerhead ground. Do not run the engine but turn the key to the RUN position..... In the RUN position, there should be absolutely NO VOLTAGE registering on the gauge. If even a microvolt registers, that is enough to damage and eventually destroy the powerpack.... the cause of voltage at that point is usually a failing ignition switch.

To test the ignition switch, simply disconnect the black/yellow wire from the switch. If the voltage at the gauge ceases to exist, replace the ignition switch.

To ease your mind.... that engine has a 35 ampere stator that runs extremely hot and is subject to melting down. This pertains only to the two large black coils located at the rear portion of the stator. Those two large black coils provide approximately 300 AC volts to the powerpack in order to energize the pack (ignition). When those coils start to melt down, dripping a sticky looking substance down on the powerhead area, a voltage drop takes place resulting in erratic and eventually no ignition. Bottom line..... if either of those coils had started to melt down, rest assured that the stator was faulty.

Unfortunately, since that stator runs extremely hot, this problem will raise its ugly head at some point in time in the future, a few years normally depending on its use.

Re: Johnson 225 running rough at all rpm ranges

Joe, thanks.. I will perform the tests you mentioned and get back to you tomorrow.

Re: Johnson 225 running rough at all rpm ranges

Should you not have a spark tester......

(Spark Tester - Home Made)
(J. Reeves)

A spark tester can be made with a piece of 1x4 or 1x6, drive a few finishing nails through it, then bend the pointed ends at a right angle. You can then adjust the gap by simply twisting the nail(s). Solder a spark plug wire to one which you can connect to the spark plug boots, and a ground wire of some kind to the other to connect to the powerhead somewhere. Use small alligator clips on the other end of the wires to connect to ground and to the spark plug connector that exists inside of the rubber plug boot.

Using the above, one could easily build a spark tester whereas they could connect 2, 4, 6, or 8 cylinders all at one time. The ground nail being straight up, the others being bent, aimed at the ground nail. A typical 4 cylinder tester follows:


..........X1..........X2

.................X..(grd)

..........X3..........X4

Re: Johnson 225 running rough at all rpm ranges

All tests were fine except that I have no spark in the bottom strbrd cylinder. although all plugs looked pretty good. Also checked compression, all between 96 and 105.... please advise...

Re: Johnson 225 running rough at all rpm ranges

I assume you're doing the spark check with the spark plugs removed.... if not, do so.

Switch the leads going to the non sparking coil with a sparking coil. If the non sparking coil still doesn't spark, then obviously the coil is bad.

If the non sparking coil now has spark, either the powerpack is faulty, there is a poor connection somewhere, or a timing sensor under the flywheel is faulty (not sure if that 2001 model has timing sensors or some other setup). First thing to do in this case is to check closely all of the rubber Pin/Socket connectors.

The pins and sockets have a habit of getting pushed back within the rubber plugs which results in a poor or non existent scenario. Also, the wires have been know to break away from those pins/sockets but still stay within the rubber socket giving the illusion that there is a connection when there is none.

Let us know what you find.

Re: Johnson 225 running rough at all rpm ranges

Yes, plugs are out during testing. Today i began by swapping out plug wires and got a spark in the "no spark" cylinder however, the motor was cold at this point. Then I fired her up and after a couple minutes it began sputtering again. I retested for spark by swapping plug wires and again, after warming up, there was no spark in the bottom strbd cylinder. I then took the lead off the "no spark" coil and moved it up one coil and sure enough, no spark there.... The connections look pretty clean. The lead that goes to the "no spark" coil is orange/green. from the coil it goes directly into the powerpack and into some black gel, there are no other connectors on this line except where it connects to the coil. Please advise...

Re: Johnson 225 running rough at all rpm ranges

As you've discovered, the coil primary wires from the powerpack to the coils are color coded... top=orange/blue, center=orange, bottom=orange/green. When you say "swapping plug wires", I assume you're speaking of the primary orange wires.

If so, you took the primary wire off of the non firing coil and moved it up to a known firing coil. The result being that the firing coil now became a non firing coil. This usually means that the powerpack is faulty. However....... the powerpack firing system is normally regulated by the timing sensors located in the timing base under the flywheel. I say normally due to the fact that I retired a few years prior to that engine being manufactured and I'm not sure of the timing sensor setup on that engine.

At any rate...... the rubber connecting plugs that lead from the timing base under the flywheel to the powerpack... if you haven't checked them for flaws as explained in my previous reply, do so as a poor connection there will also result in having the engine act like a powerpack is failing.

Hopefully another member will jump in here who is familiar with the timing sensor setup under the flywheel..... I know a radical change was made in that setup at some point in time of the 2000+ area.

Re: Johnson 225 running rough at all rpm ranges

Joe,

I am going to install a new power pack tomorrow. I will forward the results.

Should I be worried of what caused the failure of this powerpack causing damage to the next? Also, what do you think of the compression results?? They were between 96 and 105... This motor has approximately 150 hours on it. Not sure if those numbers are a little low...

Re: Johnson 225 running rough at all rpm ranges

When I performed the compression test I removed all of the plugs and moved the tester around the cylinders. The motor was not fully warmed up.. Does this influence the results that I got?

Re: Johnson 225 running rough at all rpm ranges

Joe,

I have interesting results to share. I installed the new CDI Powerpack today and tested for spark. I now have spark in all 6 cylinders however, when I fired it up, idle was extremely high at 2200 - 2300 rpms... I am stumped.... Any advise??? Would a faulty power pack cause this? I did not mess with anything other than the power pack and I installed it exactly as the old one was. Please advise....

Re: Johnson 225 running rough at all rpm ranges

The compression on those 225 models is usually around 95 psi on the starboard bank and 90 psi on the port bank. I wouldn't be concerned about the readings you got.

As mentioned above, my knowledge of that 2001 model is limited due to me retiring back in 1991, and I have went as far as I dare go with what advice I have to offer. Hopefully another member or two will be jumping in here shortly with advanced knowledge. Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

Re: Johnson 225 running rough at all rpm ranges

In your first post you claimed the idle was around 1100 in neutral in the water?

Now you have spark on all cyls the idle is a lot higher naturally.

Someone probably turned the idle up to compensate for rough running, they covered it up instead of fixing it.

Normal idle speed is around 7-800 rpm IN GEAR at idle.

On a hose with no load idle is 1100, thats normal for the garden hose.

Idle speed is usually adjusted by changing the timing, not the mixture.

My engine has optical ignition and I don't know exactly how the idle speed is adjusted on yours.

Some seafoam might help to even those compression numbers for you. Spray some in the cyl and let it soak for half an hr.
They're not that bad.

A factory service book is good idea of you want to do service work yourself, you would need to order it from the dealership, try to avoid the seloc type, they cover too many models and are rather vague on specifics.

Re: Johnson 225 running rough at all rpm ranges

END RESULTS:

Thanks for all the help, it has been very informative and much appreciated. After installing the new CDI P-Pack and having the elevated idle, I decided to re-install the old p-pack. As I suspected, it ran and idled fine (except for no spark in the bottom stbd cylinder). I sent the old powerpack back to CDI for testing. After a little leg and phone work, I found a slightly used p-pack from local mechanic and sure enough, I installed it today and she is running as good as ever. The new p-pack from CDI was, in no uncertain terms, defective. I also decided to research this " high idle with a new p-pack " and came up with another thread here in iboats where someone else had the same issue with a new CDI p-pack.

Ultimately, I'll be fishing tomorrow and will also have a spare p-pack when CDI replaces mine.

Re: Johnson 225 running rough at all rpm ranges

Hmmm, a new component and it's faulty. That's enough to throw anyone off the track. Glad to hear you solved the problem and are off to fishing world shortly.

Re: Johnson 225 running rough at all rpm ranges

been having another problem maybe you've seen before.. fuel line is draining. I have a new fuel tank pickup, new anitsiphon valve, new fuel lines and a new primer ball. after sitting for a few days, on a fresh start I have to prime the fuel ball every few mins until I hit the river and run her up to cruising rpms for even a minute or two. once I have done this the motor runs excellent all day long at all different rpms. If I stop for a couple hours, upon restarting I have to completely reprime the fuel line then she runs fine again. Where is the fuel going? I doubt the fuel pump is faulty because it runs so good. Any ideas, please advise.....

Re: Johnson 225 running rough at all rpm ranges

Orientate the fuel bulb so the arrow is pointing up ( at the sky) to keep fuel from draining back to the tank.

Re: Johnson 225 running rough at all rpm ranges

Assuming that the fuel primer bulb does become hard when priming intitally, and not leak down if you hold pressure upon it.... it's possible that the new anti siphon valve is faulty.