89 Force L-Drive worth fixing?

mrdibs1 · Aug 8, 2010

Could use a little help deciding what's needed for my 85hp Force L-Drive. Picked up the Capri very cheap and the guy didn't know if it would run. Appears it was stored for about 6 years mostly indoors. Starter was bad, fixed. Gas seemed ok, but I drained it anyway. Starts right up with choke, but misses every few seconds. Worse as I add power. Trigger is jammed up won't move. Broke the tab off trying to free it. Trying to find a puller to get the flywheel off. Haven't bought a new trigger because I'm worried motor has too many issues. Would a frozen trigger cause it to miss? I removed and cleaned the carbs, but frankly they looked clean to start with. Plugs looked fair - ordered new ones. Almost seems like the engine misses are hydrolock events, but it did it when the earmuffs fell off too. No evidence of water in the cylinders and all have 130 lbs compression +/- 3lbs. Too rich maybe? Is 130 compression ok for this motor? I have a service manual, but it doesn't really tell me what to test - just how. Can I troubleshoot the engine running dry for short bursts? I'm replacing the impeller anyway - if I can get it running well.

92rslt1 · Aug 8, 2010

Re: 89 Force L-Drive worth fixing?

You cant trouble shoot it running it dry or you will warp your head fast and could end up with a paper weight. The power head isn't necessarily the problem with the L drive(unless its overheated) The power heads a standard force power head. All the head gasket problems start after they are overheated.

First... get your impeller fixed and put it in a large drum to test it. They will run on the muffs but they like real water better.

second.. triple check and make sure your carbs are cleaned spotless. every single passage of the carb needs to be clean or it wont function correctly.

your problem is most likely carb related from sitting so long.
you need to lube everything and replace a few cables from the sounds of it. check all fluids grease all grease fittings.

mrdibs1 · Aug 9, 2010

Re: 89 Force L-Drive worth fixing?

Thanks for the advice. Is 130 compression good? I know if they're all about the same it should run ok, but if it should be 180 I'm still in trouble. Also - could stuck trigger be related to misses? I took the carbs off, cleaned em real well, replaced hoses etc. So I'm pretty confident fuel supply is good. I haven't started it since carbs were put back - didn't make sense to do more testing until trigger was free. I also have a bad down circuit on the trim. Goes up but won't come down. Without fluid, only up spun the motor. Added fluid and both worked briefly. Now only up again. Simple fix?

thompy · Aug 9, 2010

Re: 89 Force L-Drive worth fixing?

compression is fine at 130

Frank Acampora · Aug 9, 2010

Re: 89 Force L-Drive worth fixing?

A stuck trigger means that timing will not advance or is advanced too far in start position. Will this cause missing? You betcha! It will also cause stalling and general poor running and, of course, lack of power.

92rslt1 · Aug 9, 2010

Re: 89 Force L-Drive worth fixing?

mrdibs1 said:
Thanks for the advice. Is 130 compression good? I know if they're all about the same it should run ok, but if it should be 180 I'm still in trouble. Also - could stuck trigger be related to misses? I took the carbs off, cleaned em real well, replaced hoses etc. So I'm pretty confident fuel supply is good. I haven't started it since carbs were put back - didn't make sense to do more testing until trigger was free. I also have a bad down circuit on the trim. Goes up but won't come down. Without fluid, only up spun the motor. Added fluid and both worked briefly. Now only up again. Simple fix?

Check/clean your grounds to your trim pump. If they are good check the wire where it connects to the pump, have someone hit the switch and check it for power/continuity. The fuses are under the dash and there's circuit breakers at the distribution block near the power head.

When you said trigger I was unsure what you meant.. I was thinking you were referring to your gear selector being broken or something. Your timing has everything to do with your motor running bad. Check on youtube there's a few vids of how to set timing on an outboard engine. first replace the broken parts...

mrdibs1 · Aug 9, 2010

Re: 89 Force L-Drive worth fixing?

Thanks guys that really helps a lot and will keep me busy. The flywheel is outside soaking in penentrating juice with the puller attached and cranked down with #2 setting on my impact wrench. Smacked puller bolt between cranks hoping for a pop but no such luck. I'm afraid to set the impact to #3. Either the bolts will break or my cheap Harbor Freight puller will. Might try a shop next to see if they will pop for me. Really anxious to see why the trigger is stuck. Expensive part!

Unforcefull Force · Aug 9, 2010

Re: 89 Force L-Drive worth fixing?

I wouldn't use an impact on the puller. A regular ratchet will do just fine. Tighten puller 1/6 of a turn at a time. Stopping between each turn and LIGHTLY tap on the flywheel (tap in between the bolts that hold the puller to the flywheel). Not just in the same spot, 5-10 LIGHT taps between A & B, then 5-10 between B & C, 5-10 between C & A. This is how I do it every time. I removed my flywheel about 7 times in the last 14 days. Oh, make sure the bolts you are using are: good bolts, in as far as they will go.

-Mark

Frank Acampora · Aug 10, 2010

Re: 89 Force L-Drive worth fixing?

If tapping and tightening will not release the flywheel, then with the puller attached and tight, apply heat with a propane torch (nothing hotter)to the center of the wheel. She should pop very quickly with a saisfying bang.

By the way: If you are careful, you can repair the trigger lever with a little JB epoxy and a small piece of aluminum sheet to reinforce the joint. After it is free, there is not much force or leverage applied.

mrdibs1 · Aug 13, 2010

Re: 89 Force L-Drive worth fixing?

Well guys I followed ALL of the advice for getting the flywheel off. I broke a bolt off of course using the impact wrench and cheap bolts. Once I spent a day drilling and tapping, I used #8 bolts for the gear puller, the impact, the hammer, heat, the wedge, tapping, swearing, etc. Eventually I put a wedge under the flywheel while tapping the gear puller and it popped. The trigger came out and seems ok (followed advice to glue it back together too). Should I lube it somehow? And is it ok to clean the stator and flywheel with steel wool? Kinda rusty. After I get it together and the impeller in I'll let you know if it still runs like crap.

jason32038 · Aug 14, 2010

Re: 89 Force L-Drive worth fixing?

Hope you can get er to run for a long while. L-Drives went out of style like 8 tracks did. lol

Unforcefull Force · Aug 16, 2010

Re: 89 Force L-Drive worth fixing?

mrdibs1 said:
Well guys I followed ALL of the advice for getting the flywheel off. I broke a bolt off of course using the impact wrench and cheap bolts. Once I spent a day drilling and tapping, I used #8 bolts for the gear puller, the impact, the hammer, heat, the wedge, tapping, swearing, etc. Eventually I put a wedge under the flywheel while tapping the gear puller and it popped. The trigger came out and seems ok (followed advice to glue it back together too). Should I lube it somehow? And is it ok to clean the stator and flywheel with steel wool? Kinda rusty. After I get it together and the impeller in I'll let you know if it still runs like crap.

I over-looked this reply....

You really shouldn't use anything to pry up on the flywheel. The stator is VERY sensitive. One little nick on one of the windings and it's game over for the stator, you will have a burnt stator within 30 seconds of running the motor.

You could put on a little anti-seize before you re-install the flywheel.

You can clean up the flywheel & stator with some steel wool, again BE CAREFUL not to damage the stator windings. Do not crack the coating on the windings!

-Mark

mrdibs1 · Aug 16, 2010

The drama continues

The drama continues

Ok my goal was to get the engine running to see if the rest is worth fixing. I got everything back together. It started right up, missed a couple times, then died. After much fuss re-checking spark, fuel, compression, I checked the timing. Flywheel key sheered. So fellow boat geeks here are the suspects. Choose one or come up with your own.
#1. The stator was hitting the trigger, so I shimmed it with very small washers. Don't think that would be enough and it needed to be done. Am I missing a spacer? Stator was not damaged, btw.
#2. I didn't torque the flywheel to spec, but it was tight and bolt hadn't loosened. Both halfs of the key were about in the middle of the slots. Minor damage to key slot on the crankshaft.
#3. Starter gear was stuck in the engaged position. Still stuck in fact.
#4. Could water [or gas] have gotten in a cylinder and hydro-locked the motor long enough to spin out the flywheel? I have even and good compression, but who knows.
#5. The penetrating oil I used to loosen this thing combined with not enough torque made it too slippery. Clean all oils off?
#6. Buy a paddle boat and sell this heap.

I'm learning a lot for the next one I guess.

Unforcefull Force · Aug 17, 2010

Re: 89 Force L-Drive worth fixing?

You shouldn't have to shim the trigger at all. My motor has no spacers.

I always torque 5lbs over specification, but that's just what I do. Get a new flywheel key, you should be fine.

The starter can be lubed up with some white lithium spray grease; however, my starter gear usually doesn't disengage until my motor turns over. It is still good to lube up the starter though.

As far as the flywheel spinning a key due to the motor being "locked", I am not sure if this would be possible. I always here of people randomly spinning a flywheel/breaking a key so I think it might be something common. (Weak key, not enough torque, key not in properly). Knock on wood, I have never broken a key.

I never used penetrating oil on the flywheel for lubrication. I have seen people use anti-seize to prevent future seize of the flywheel. I would probably wipe off the oil just to be on the safe side, but it may not affect anything at all if you don't; I'm not sure.

-Mark

92rslt1 · Aug 18, 2010

Re: 89 Force L-Drive worth fixing?

You didn't tighten the flywheel enough. tighten it to spec..set your trigger up correctly and pull your bottom plug and check for water.. If you dont set this up correctly I can guarantee you .. that you will hate it. your minor problem with turn into huge problems.

Frank Acampora · Aug 18, 2010

Re: 89 Force L-Drive worth fixing?

Yep! 95 foot pounds is a LOT. You can not tighten a flywheel to this spec without a very long wrench or a torque wrench. So: your flywheel nut was "tight" but the flywheel sheared the key. Naturally!

mrdibs1 · Aug 18, 2010

Re: 89 Force L-Drive worth fixing?

Ok guys. I broke down and towed it two blocks to the local repair guy. I had it running, but it wasn't timed right etc. He got it running real nice but said it's getting hot and doesn't think water's getting to the engine. Changed water pump last week. What could be going on? Also the trim motor only goes up. How can I bench test it?

demdog · Jul 6, 2011

Re: 89 Force L-Drive worth fixing?

This is a late reply to this thread but hope it helps someone in the future, I had all these issues with my L-drive 125 hp
flywheel also stuck same methods of removal but I broke some magnets in the flywheel and had to replace so be real careful when pulling or it will cost around 200 bucks to replace. My trigger was also stuck which is why said removal of flywheel but upon closer inspection the laminated plates in the stator were rusting and causing them to separate which caused the trigger to seize up against the stator. So your adding washers was the wrong conclusion, rust is our enemy. Replaced stator, trigger and flywheel. 500 bucks. OUCH. Running hot, install tell-tale top of thermostate hosing probably already threaded hole there for it with plug installed 1/8 in 27 pipe thread and 1/4 in hose barb or compression fitting will work with 1/4 inch line. Should see water squirting out about a foot at idle and about 3 feet at high rpm. Does thermostate open at desired temp.? 130 degrees on mine. Tell-tell is installed before thermostate so will squirt regardless unless plugged.

mrdibs1 · Aug 2, 2011

Re: 89 Force L-Drive worth fixing?

Thanks for the replies - even the late ones. Happy to report the old l-drive runs like a champ with no issues so far. I left the stator shimmed and repaired the flywheel, but I agree I should take that all apart again and get to the root of the problem. Picked up a new trigger and am hunting for a stator within my budget. Water flow at telltale is not what you say it should be. Sometimes comes out good, sometimes sputters, but the engine is running cool. Mechanic said he thought it was cooling correctly. I have not greased the u-joint and have no idea how to get to the fittings. Any insite?

hornetswarm · Aug 8, 2011

Re: 89 Force L-Drive worth fixing?

View attachment 106818Grease the U-joint....I just had my bearing disentigrate!!!! Prior owner did not grease at all, and I learned about it the hard way.

The grease fitting is located here....on my 1989 Force L drive bayliner...

Had I greased this....man one could only imagine. Also during rebuild I found another grease fitting in the engine compartment right below the carbs and on the stearing linkage to the engine.. Grease is your friend!!!! Grease it all.

89 Force L-Drive worth fixing?

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