Ideas about placement of new foam

Im in the process of replacing a 4'x4' section of the floor in my 1972 glastron v 166. Like many others, im getting rid of the old foam blocks for obvious reasons. My question is this: after much research, i have decided to use the polyethylene swimming pool noodles and im looking for any ideas as to how i might go about positioning the noodles in the hull. Thanks!

Re: Ideas about placement of new foam

Side by side?

Re: Ideas about placement of new foam

Thanks foodfisher...here's some of the things im wondering about, should i slice them lengthwise to flatten them so i can get better compaction or should they be left whole? Plus, i want to be sure that i leave a void between them and the bottom of the hull as to not trap water. I've thought about installing something down in the hull to keep them up off the bottom for better drainage...I don't know, just looking for ideas...This iboats forum never ceases to amaze me with some of the ideas people come up with!

Re: Ideas about placement of new foam

i would avoid cutting them lenght wise as to keep the mess down (little pieces of the foam shredding off) if the noodles are round i would think there would be plenty of space for water to travel back.

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Hey Monk. I am all for ingenuity, but I think some of these expandable foam materials add a bit of stability to your hull. Perhaps consider a 2lb closed cell expandable foam. Maybe even wrap in plastic if you're concerned about water penetration. Excessive water in these areas could also lead to rotten stringers. How are they looking?

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Stringers look great...that makes having to mess with fiberglass dust just a little more tolerable LOL! I may be overthinking (or getting to extreme), and what i mean by that is...Im thinking i need to pack as many of these noodles in there as i can get, thats why i was thinking about slicing them and laying them flat...and so by me wanting to pack them im concerned about trapping water, the arch point between the hull and the stringers is very close to the diameter of the noodles (2.5 in dia.)...so, if i lay them in whole, or attempt to pack them in, it might just cause to much restriction for water drainage...Heres the thing...I don't know how familiar anyone is about this hull design, but it has very little cubic feet of space in the area under the floor...thats why i want to get as much in there as possible without creating drainage issues...The boat leaks no water, i can go out all day and when i get back and pull the plug she's dry as can be...Thanks!

Re: Ideas about placement of new foam

This is how I did mine:




I have a ski locker in the middle that is left open.







Floor done, noodle carnage


I used 72 noodles in an 18'. Those are the only leftover pieces.

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God Bless the PE foam noodle...best bang for the buck when it comes to flotation means...I researched flotaion stuff and the cost of it...I bet the companies that produce flotation foam for boats hate these noodles...I priced their products and it's outrageous what they want for flotation foam products...JUST because it's for a BOAT, they think they can charge an arm and a leg for this stuff and people will still buy it...WRONG...I got my noodles for a buck a piece at Dollar General, i stuffed 35 of them in the hull of my '72 Glastron V 166...One of these noodles will hold my 150 lb brother chest high out of the water when sitting on it...I have no doubt that 35 of them will float a 3500 lb craft and my boat/motor combo comes nowhere near this weight...I don't think you could sink this boat if you had to...

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Goodwill by me had them for .50 each for the smaller ones and $1 for the big ones, I just bought a couple dozen. Soaked one in the bottom of a bucket for a week and it didn't suck up any water.

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Thats right...they retain no water, they're tougher than heck, they're the only thing i know that you can put out in the blazing sun for years and will never harm it, they withstand gas and oil exposure very well...I do not believe there is anything better...I priced all sorts of flotation materials and the price they want for that stuff is rediculous...I read a comment on another boating site about this and the guy said he knew of one Major boat builder that had a recall for bad foam blocks...they corrected the problem by substituting the noodles for the foam blocks...GO FIGURE...

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Obviously I'm a noodle fan, but I just wanted to correct some mis-information for everyone's benefit. The "one noodle will hold up my 150lb brother" analogy doesn't work because your brother already somewhat floats. The amount of plain old dead weight a noodle will support is considerably less. Also, I do believe if you leave them out in the sun for years they will suffer from UV degradation. That's not a problem in the bilge of our boats. I never tested them for oil/gas resistance so I'm hoping you're right on that one. You got a steal if you got them for $1 a piece. I bought mine in the off-season and the only place I could find them in bulk was over $2 a piece and I bought 3 cases of 24! Even at that price it was still fairly economical comparatively.

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Yeah, i agree with the weight analogy...thats why i only gave it the 100 lb rating LOL...And the sun, no...i've never seen anything that could withstand the rays of the sun here in the South...you let it sit out, and it will get ruined, but these noodles take it like a champ..I sliced these noodles lengthwise and made a little cushion over the top of my windshield molding to save my boat cover the corner edges of the molding...it works great! Im tellin' ya, tougher than a steel belted tire...kids can't tear 'em up, whats that tell us..LOL!!! Im serious about the article stating they were used to satisfy a recall...I believe i have that in my favorites..

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I had the same thoughts about drainage between my stringers if i used the foam or noodles.I thought about cutting pvc pipe down the middle and glueing them in using pl adhesive.Sort of a half round between stringer and hull making a kind of tunnel to the bilge.Also drilling some weep holes every 12" or so.

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thanks for the pics EZ.

ya know....the next boat i have to build for someone (more than likely this winter) i am going to make process that will allow pour in foam to drain water to the bilge, and post that here....

the pour in foam has serious structural advantages over noodles.....but the down side to the pour in foam is just too much

Re: Ideas about placement of new foam

monk-monk said:

Yeah, i agree with the weight analogy...thats why i only gave it the 100 lb rating LOL...QUOTE]

Actually it takes only about 11 pounds of buoyancy to keep the average adult afloat. Most adult life jackets are rated at around 15 pounds of buoyancy. Figure the volume of a noodle in cubic feet and multiply that by 62 pounds (65 for sea water) and subtract the weight of the noodle which is probably negligible for rough figuring and that is the buoyancy of it.

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Re: Ideas about placement of new foam

monk-monk said:

Thanks foodfisher...here's some of the things im wondering about, should i slice them lengthwise to flatten them so i can get better compaction or should they be left whole?

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I'm trying to make the same decision as the OP. I pulled the deck from my 16' Lund Rebel, yesterday. Each space between the ribs is packed full of poured-in foam.

Issue:
Water displacement is what we use to measure floatation material. Let's imagine a hypothetical "noodle" that is square in cross section, 3" on a side and 6' long. The square noodle could be tapered on the ends to match the hull curvature, and would pack well enough in the square-sided areas between ribs of my boat that I could probably get close to matching the volume of foam I remove.
-Round hollow 3" diameter, 6' long noodles have a volume of ~ 0.262 cubic feet.
-The square cross section noodle (3"x3"x6') has a volume of 0.375 cubic feet.
-The volume displacement difference between square noodle and hollow round noodle is 30%!
-The difference between the volume of the original poured-in foam, and round-hollow noodles placed whole in the same space is at least 30%.

I can't use "pink foam" insulation sheets for floatation. I have tested the pink, it melts in gasoline. Given the small chance of a fuel spill or leak in the boat, and direct flow to the under-deck foam, it is not worth the risk. So, back to the OP's second post, maybe slicing up the hollow noodles lengthwise would be a way to reduce the loss of flotation volume. (And increase amount of project effort 10X.)

I have seen polyethelene swimming mats. Same stuff as the noodles, just various shapes of 1" thick material. Anyone know of a source for the mats? I have not seen hexagonal or solid noodles available in stores for a few years. A solid round noodle would have 11% more displacement than a hollow (and not trap water.)

Question: Any other alternatives not mentioned? Looking for polyethelene material, which does not melt in gasoline.

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Hey guys I'm a virgin at boats which will become more obvious as time goes on, so I may as well show my ignorance and get it over with.
Does a boat really need any help floating or is this a worst case scenario plan? I have a big list of questions that may sound dumber than that one...you've been warned :redface:

Re: Ideas about placement of new foam

LUCKYDUX said:

Hey guys I'm a virgin at boats which will become more obvious as time goes on, so I may as well show my ignorance and get it over with.
Does a boat really need any help floating or is this a worst case scenario plan? I have a big list of questions that may sound dumber than that one...you've been warned :redface:

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Flotation foam doesn't make a boat float. It is supposed to keep it from sinking if it gets swamped.

Re: Ideas about placement of new foam

LUCKYDUX said:

Hey guys I'm a virgin at boats which will become more obvious as time goes on, so I may as well show my ignorance and get it over with.
Does a boat really need any help floating or is this a worst case scenario plan? I have a big list of questions that may sound dumber than that one...you've been warned :redface:

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jafo is correct.

if the boat sinks.....the flotation foam will keep the boat on the surface....thus ...giving the people on board something to hang on to and making them easer to spot for rescue.

best case scenario for flotation foam...is to have the boat sunk up to the gunwhales and have water washing over. but not go under

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I tell you what...you guys and your math formulas here on iboats just kills me!! NO, don't get me wrong, i think it's great!...For someone to be able to calculate this-that-and-the-other-thing in regards to the most effective bouyancy of a noodle is beyond me...I tried to keep up with calculations that randys posted, but i got lost about half way through...LOL i'll read it till i understand it...i thought about the PVC for a channel too, but keep in mind it is foreign to the actual structural material of the boat; therefore, i chose not to use it. I cut some wedges (kinda like a door stop would look) out of exterior grade plywood, sealed them with 5 coats of epoxy resin then glass clothed them in place between the hull and the stringers...that added strength and ensures a good path for water to move freely with the max amount of noodles i could pack in there...Im so glad i took this old floor up and did this, it was one hel-uv-a job but my confidence level in what i have now compared to what i had originally...well, that made all that hard work worth it...One added note on this, i haven't seen any replies in regards to hull design/flotation abilities...what i mean is this: i run 2 older Glastrons a '72 and a '75 v-166 and v-178 respectively, they both have aqua-lift hull designs...if your not familiar, these boats have very little cubic feet of space between the floor and hull...now compare that to a Deep-V hull...OK math wizards, go to work on that for us!