Is this bad?

Had an issue pop up while out on a long weekend trip. I know this is bad, but was wanting to get some feedback on rebuilding vs. repower, parts availability etc.

The wife and I decided to take a long weekend and do some wandering since the weather here in Fl has been so hot lately. We put in at Titusville and wandered south on the ICW until we got to Ft. Pierce. The chop was pretty heavy on the ICW so we decided to kick inland to Lk. Okeechobee and maybe make our way up the Kissimmee river to see how close to home we could get by boat. On the first day we made it to the big lake and spent the night there. The next morning we started towards the north end of the lake to get to the Kissimmee river. We were cruising along the canal on the SW side of the lake after refueling and the motor started to stumble a little bit. I had been having issues with the carbs since I got the motor and finally pulled all new fuel lines and cleaned everything out really well. I assumed the stumble was fuel related, as in more of the old fuel line remnants breaking loose from somewhere and giving the carbs a fit. I opted to open it up for a minute and see if it would clear itself. It did for a few seconds then all hell broke loose and she quit... hard.... We got a tow back to the nearest boat ramp and I called a buddy to grab my trailer and come get us.

The day after we got home I pulled the plugs to get a visual on the pistons. The lower port side piston looked bad. I pulled the head and found the issue... LOL.

Motor is a '96 Johnson 112 SPL and I am contemplating pulling it down and rebuilding, buying a rebuilt power head to swap or finding another outboard (used) to just swap it out with if I can find one cheap enough on CL or a classified somewhere. The boat is an 18' Wellcraft bowrider that I restored the transom, stringers and sole on (actually still an ongoing project). The ID plate says 150hp is the max for the hull and for kicks I would like to find something closer to the 150 than the 112, but price will ultimately dictate what happens on that end... So... What would you do?

Here's the pics of the bad cylinder/piston and head. I'm guessing a rod or wrist pin bearing died and made it's way into the cylinder...

Re: Is this bad?

I'm still searching for options...

Re: Is this bad?

yikes!

Re: Is this bad?

What does the cylinder wall look like? If it is scored you may as well replace the powerhead, but if the wall is not scored I would look at rebuilding it. A way to start is if you see a scored mark try to hook it with your fingernail. If you cannot hook it you should be able to repair it and if you can hook it the score is probably to deep to repair.

Re: Is this bad?

It is definitely scored... more like gouged... it appears that the cylinders are sleeved though so I was wondering if it would be worth the headache to press in a new sleeve (if even possible). If I could find a powerhead for a good price that would definitley be the easiest and what I would do. I havent dug into it far enough yet to see if the crank was shot either. I'm thinking that if the crank is toast a rebuilt powerhead would be the only way to go (aside from a new, used complete motor)... I have been researching powerheads and a rebuilt one retail would be more than I have total in the boat. It would be a hard decision to make unless I found that "deal of the century" on one. I was optimistic that I could procure one on the cheap but that optimism is waning as I continue the search...

So, can a cylinder be re-sleeved without too much headache?

Anyone?

Anyone?

Beuller?

Re: Is this bad?

Have you tried any salvage yards for a powerhead, sometimes you get lucky.

Re: Is this bad?

No, not yet. I just bagan my search and have been sticking to mostly internet related places. I will see if there are any locally and make a few calls though, good idea. I keep telling myself that I'm not in a rush, but I already want to be back out on the water and this just happened last weekend. haha. I also need to find a cross reference place to see what (if any) other models/hp's would use the same powerhead. I know my 112 spl is just a 115 base model without a few bells and whistles. It appears that some sites show the 115, 140 and 150 johnson as having the same powerhead. I havent really gotten into that research yet and may have read something wrong as I am just skimming at this point looking for options. K, to the phone book! Wish me luck.

Re: Is this bad?

The internet can be your best friend for finding stuff, might have to pay a little freight, but at least you can shop prices.

Re: Is this bad?

what you have is a crossflow 4 cylinder,seems like you broke a ring,you can totally dissamble the engine and rebuild it.If your cyl.is gouged it can be bored ,most over sized sizes are 19 20 30 44 and I think 64 thousands over.That would mean a new piston kit.I suggest if you rebuild yours ,you rebuild all 4 cylinders ,new bearings,gaskets,you can likely reuse the top and middle main bearings,definatly replace the bottom main,the top and mid are expensive and really dont need replacing unless you had a total oil problem in which the crank would be bad,the crank will be ok based on what I see,piston kits include the oversize piston ring and wrist pin with bearings,you can go to top of IBOATS,look under engines and it will lead you to rebuilt powerheads,For about 1600 you can gt a rebuilt,it mean reusing your electrical components ,flywheel and carbs.DEFINATLY get carbs rebuilt,you could have had a lean issue that caused the blow up,or bad gas among other things.To get a decent used powerhead ,its questionable ,those crossflows have not been built in 15 yrs ,some longer,you never know what your going to get,depending on the yr.the crossflow that would be like yours is 85,88,90 112,115 There are other 4 cylinders too,the larger 140 has a different exhust system,above 140 is 6 cylinder.If you were to think used ,Id suggest you find a complete running used motor.Any OMC eng will mount with your controls except for the FICHT and the 60 degree loopers ,basically if it has a big red harness plug it will work,2,3 ,4 ,6 cylinders ,makes getting a used OMC the easy choice

Re: Is this bad?

Mikesea: Thanks for all the info. Thats the type of info I have been trying to find. I am fairly positive I broke a ring, but am also fairly positive I shattered a bearing. I have needle bearings embedded in the piston and head. I'm just not sure if the pushrod lost the bearing or the wrist pin (hoping wrist pin). I found a couple places around here that could swap a rebuilt powerhead for about $1000 +/- $200. I found a guy selling a '79 merc 150 for around $700 with good compression on all 6 cyl's. I'm not a merc fan but this might be the way I go... I guess I have to dig in and see if my crank is toast or not. That kind of seems like the deciding factor so far... Keep the ideas coming, I am gaining optimism again. Help me avoid the merc! haha

Thanks again to everyone sharing their knowledge and helping a semi-newbie out!

Re: Is this bad?

Here are some better pics of the carnage, for your amusement/review... The other ones were from my phone and were quite fuzzy...

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Id bet the wrist pin ,pretty confident crank would be fine,Ive seen alot of blowus,I worked for 2 powerhead guys.If your buying a rebuilt ,ask if ALL pistons are NEW out of the box,and all cylinders were bored to next oversize,bottom main bearing should be new with new seals ,heads should have been taken apart ,new sensors,all water passages clean,new water deflectors in block,one shop ,we put NEW recirculatin valves ,the other didnt,I saw both sides of the business,the right way and the wrong.some guys only rebuild thee troubled cylinder and put the removed pistons that were OK back in thier holes.They get by with the warranty .As for those warranties.Think about this.They may give you a 100% first yr,or some only 6 months.Then its a reduction ,and if you pick up any of it ,you pay shop time and retail price.If you need new pistions next time,they are 90 bucks a piece and shop rate in Islamorada Fl.is going between 75 and 125 an hr.Ouch.Be careful.Thats why ,I always suggest ,if a guy knows what a wrench does,He can probably rebuild some of the older outboards ,like yours,Of course time is a factor.As for the Merc.Come on man,its 30 yrs old ,and the Mercs have major problems with their wuring harnesses after a few yrs yet alone 30.then you have the controls are different,and if you have trim and tilt,those old Mercs dont have it like the OMC's its a big ugly hydraulic pump that sits,and leaks all over yor boat with these lonk octopus hoses that go to hydraulic pistons that leak .Do you want a Merc now,if so ,Ill come back with some more good stuff for ya.Get working,you can have her running in a week.

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Is it possible that a piston ring pin let loose and caused this? I see a deep gouge in one of your cylinder pics that reminds me of the gouge in my cylinder when the pin became loose and pretty much tore up that cylinder. After an new sleeve was pressed in I rebuilt the motor an she is running fine today. Mikesea is right that if you get working you can have her up and running again but I question his time frame of a week. I know it took me longer than that but then I am a Toolmaker and not a Marine Mechanic. PS I enjoyed the rebuild. Especially when I brought her back to life for the first time after the rebuild.

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alot depends on the machinest,you really should have a knowledgable guy that knows machining outboards,also,if I forgot,inspect the port holes in the cylinder for cracks between the holes,if there are cracks ,you will need to resleeve it.The cracks can catch rings.It is possible the pin worked its way out.But the poster mentiones finding bearings,it is not unusual to see wrist pin bearing go,or the pin as said,rings crack .ut ,connecting rods ,usually hold together unless a rebuilder re used rod bolts ,didnt use locktite ,lack of oil,or a major malfunction at hi RPM causing rod or cap to break,that is usually a site to see.Looks like a bomb went off in the block.Overkill,the hardest part of the job,MIGHT be the removing of the powerhead,the bolts often stick ,they can break,there are alot of tricks,before you force anything ,if you have trouble ,ask for the hints.Heat is your friend

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Awesome info guys! Thanks a ton. I decided to curse the merc and rebuild my Johnson (that could be taken way wrong lol) as long as there isnt a huge amount of unforseen damage inside. I will start the tear down this weekend. I talked to a guy that rebuilds powerheads and he said he can resleeve the one cyl and hone the other 3 for about $350 to make them match. I would love to have the confidence of a fresh motor hangin on the back of the boat. We have a tendancy to wander pretty far out (not ocean, just away from home) when we get the chance. The peace of mind would be welcomed. i will probably have to add another $100 or so on top of that to have him rebuld the carbs. He will only warranty his work if he knows the carbs are setup properly. This sounds to me like he knows what he's doing.

Now, onto some of them tricks... haha. Sticky bolts get heat? That will be easy, just leave the head sitting on my driveway between 2pm and 4 pm, should get to about 300deg. j/k. I'm sure I will have tons of questions once I dive in so hang with me fellas!

Last but not least, would it be beneficial to order all new pistons? I know I need one and I plan to re-ring the other 3 at least. would re-using the good pistons be a bonehead move?

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It's around $100 per hole for new. I'd do it, heck your already in there, thats half the work.

Whats another $300.... Especially if you tend to wander....

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As has been said many times before take a lot of pics with a digital camera, get a lot of zip lock bags and a good sharpie marker. I also find nail polish good for marking some pieces but it will wash off fairly easily with cleaners and solvents which can be both good and bad. I found the camera the most valuble tool I had as I went through the rebuild process. Best of luck.

Re: Is this bad?

Did the guy say why he needed to sleeve the 1 hole.Because,if you ue weisco pistons
http://www.wiseco.com/ProductSearch.aspx

you can bore up to 64 thousands.If you look at the site there are 20 30 44 ,also.i have seen alot of gouges,and Im not sure you would be so bad that you need to sleeve.I definatly agree with rebuilding the other cylinders too.Your in there,straiten to next size up and give it new piston kits.Unfortunatly,you need to buy pistons,not just rings,if the guy said your walls were still factory perfect ,you could get away with honing and new rings with your std,old pistons,but ,your not going to be perfect after 15 yrs of running.If you attempt to put nice new round rings in a oval hole ,your worse off than just putting what you took out back in .Again,you may have a crack or real bad gouge,putting in a sleeve is costly,if you only need to bore its alot less.Honestly though,id stay away from going over 44,I dont like taking too much meat off the sealing surfaces and possibility for crack between ports if it gets hot is greater the more you take off.Ideally,4 20 or 30 over cylinders.Some guys will put what ever the bore calls for,but my shops didnt.As for the powerhead bolts,if stuck you want to heat the surrounding alum.good,at very least use MAPPGAS on a handheld with a trigger reigniter for fast relite.But oxycetalyne is best.I asl found ,using an air chistle ,with a low impact setting and blunt large sized punch ,vibrating on the head of the bolt ,directy on top,vibrates those bad stuck ones to the point they start backing out,of course the hot outer area helps as well.Be patient,dont force anything.Let us know you progress and what the machinest says about the sleeve

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Update: Actually a lack of update. Family obligations and weather have kept me from tearing into the motor yet. I decided to wait a couple weeks to get the money saved before I tear it down. I hate having stuff tore apart with no idea when I will be able to get what it needs and get it back together. Not to mention, the quicker I get to puttin it back together, post teardown, the easier it will be to remember where/how everything goes... Stay tuned...

Re: Is this bad?

http://www.powerheadkit.com/johnson.htm

Complete rebuild kits.