Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

I have an ancient 1974 Enterprise tri-hull (19') with a Ford 302V8 (4bbl Holley) and the AQ270B (1.6:1) outdrive with a total of 640 hours lifetime.

I've just started hearing a 'grrrrr' sound when turning left or right (louder turning left). Upon inspection, I see that the exhaust bellows is leaking out into the lake and the flywheel housing is dripping water into the bilge.

Similar posts on this forum lead me to think I may have u-joint, gimble bearing (does the 270 have one?), flywheel bearing and/or bellows problems.

How big of a job (time and money) am I looking at?

And how do I start my inspection/diagnosing? And how far to go? Do I really need to take off the outdrive and maybe even remove the engine?

Thanks in advance,
Jerry

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

You just need to pull the upper gear box from the outdrive. You'll be able to inspect everything from there.

Here's a link to the adults only volvo section there is good info, manuals, etc. Read the thread about changing the ujoint bellows.

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?p=2360521#post2360521

Let us know what you find. It sounds like you're going to need ujoints, intermediate bearings, maybe more. If you can do the work yourself...

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

They don't have a gimbal bearing, but they do have a bearing or two that supports a driveshaft that runs between the engine and drive inside the flywheel housing. And when you have water leaking out there, you have a major issue, as its been neglected FAR too long.

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

I think I have the tools and the aptitude to attempt this, but not sure how to inspect or what I need to check. I do have the original Waukesha PCM service manual covering this 215 hp engine and AQ270 outdrive.

Taking off the upper gear box (remove bellows, helmut, nuts, bolts, etc) looks like it will allow access to the u-joint, the double bearing box and the shift mechanism.

How far do I need to disassemble the upper gear box "parts" and what am I looking for (besides obvious missing teeth, scored bearings, scratched shifting cones, etc)????

Maybe related: I noticed today (after putting in new distributor, plugs and plug wiring - was not starting and running well this summer after at temperatur) that I get a harmonic shiver/shimmy at certain rpms - around 1200 and 2200 (while on hose water, running with the outdrive in the full down position in the driveway) - seemed at first like it was the engine missing. But once I'd re-checked all the plug gaps and that there was fire at all the plugs, I listened/looked closer and it seems to be running along fine then starts an out of balance harmonic - not sure if it is the engine or the outdrive - but suspect it is in the interconnection: the flywheel 'isolator' or u-joint. I recently tightened up the bottom four thru-hull bolts on the stern housing: could I have gotten things out of alignment between engine and outdrive????

Thanks for your help,
Jerry

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

It's unlikely that the alignment has changed, as these stern drives does not need to be aligned other than on the initial install.

The alignment can be checked by measuring the distance from three tabs on the transom shield to the flywheel cover, but I would think the PDS bearing is the more likely culprit, can be hard to check though.

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

It is way better to change the bearing before it fails and embeds itself in the housing.

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

No disassembly of the upper gear box should be necessary initially. When the upper is off, you'll be able to inspect the ujoints and intermediate bearings. To check the intermediate bearings, grab the drive shaft that the ujoint yoke slips over and check it for side to side and in and out play. Let us know what you find.

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

Took the boat out on the lake yesterday (Saturday) for some more acoustic diagnostics (it doesn't make much noise in the outdrive while on the water hose in the driveway, needs to exert some effort/work).

I have yet dared to dig into this job on a sunny, hot Sunday - it can wait until weekday evenings when it's cooler.

But I am now thinking maybe the 'grrr' sound was already there and upon my tightening of the loose collar bolts to the stern, the sound is now transmitted thru the hull, in effect amplifying it somewhat - to where I'm just now hearing it (although it seems to be getting louder the more I 'test' on the lake with lots of "S" turns at medium speed, especially turning to port at the end of the turning throw).

I will tear into the outdrive later this week and let you know what I find.

Thanks for the help/advise so far.

Jerry

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

Where can I shop for replacement parts - like the drive shaft bearing in the bellhousing (noticed elsewhere that it might be 6206), double u-joint, upper and lower bellows, etc?

Thanks,
Jerry

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

captmello said:

No disassembly of the upper gear box should be necessary initially. When the upper is off, you'll be able to inspect the ujoints and intermediate bearings. To check the intermediate bearings, grab the drive shaft that the ujoint yoke slips over and check it for side to side and in and out play. Let us know what you find.

Click to expand...

Captmello:

So I'm finding different names for the different parts. Is the "intermediate bearing" the same as the PDS (primary drive shaft) bearing? And is that the one that is inside the bellhousing/nose piece between the flywheel and the u-joint?

My manual shows the vertical shaft inside the outdrive as having an intermediate bearing, but I think my problems are 'before' that (in the upper section).

I've been having much trouble getting the engine to start once at temperature (after a bit of tubing or wake boarding) - I thought it was a weak battery or vapor lock. But now in hindsight, could the bearing mentioned above be seizing after use/warming up and making the engine hard to crank?

Sorry for all the questions,
Jerry

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

captmello said:

No disassembly of the upper gear box should be necessary initially. When the upper is off, you'll be able to inspect the ujoints and intermediate bearings. To check the intermediate bearings, grab the drive shaft that the ujoint yoke slips over and check it for side to side and in and out play. Let us know what you find.

Click to expand...

Okay. I have the upper gear box off. The upper bellows (u-joint) was dry inside, just sooty but did have a couple small tears near the bottom reinforcing wires (maybe enough to let water in). The lower (exhaust) bellows was ripped, torn, totally shot.

The u-joints look to be in good shape - just dirty (a dry powder, maybe soot from when my carb was flooding for a weekend last year and got the whole stern of the boat black with soot). Each "joint" moves freely without any play at all (at least none that I can tell due to the easy movement of the joints).

When I rotate the u-joint with the gear box in either gear (up or down), the vertical shaft moves equally with maybe 1/16" of free play up/down while also moving a degree or two of free play in rotation, not much but I don't know what is tolerable.

HOWEVER, the drive shaft in the bell housing had the remnants of a seal draped on it when I pulled the gear box out. But it all appears dry in there without any corrosion. AND there is noticeable free play in up/down/left/right - about 1/4" from edge to edge. BUT no play in/out. Could this one bearing be making all the grrrr noise when I make turns, especially turning all the way to port?

And how do I best get at this bearing? Is it accessible from AFT with the engine still in the boat? (I think I saw an older 2004 thread where someone was able to do this).

Thanks for any help/advise.

Regards,
Jerry

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

Some pictures - maybe these can help where my words may not tell all.....

uppergearbox: shows the gearbox laid out on cardboard

ujoints: shows the cleaned-up u-joints (now a bit of rusting is visible)

ujointsCU: there is very little play between joints

bellhousingmedium: with bellows removed and o-ring or seal part removed from shaft

closeupSHAFTend: shouldn't there be a bearing flush with the inside edge of the bellhousing???

There is 3/16" to 1/4" of play side-to-side on this shaft (none in/out though)

What's the prognosis on the u-joints?

And how do I change the drift shaft bearing?

Thanks in advance,
Jerry

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

That last question is "And how do I change the DRIVE shaft bearing?"

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

Looks okay.

I'm not sure with type of bearing setup you have in that boat. The volvo badged 302's used the 280 outdrive and a two bearing setup in which you have to pull the engine. Many of the 270 outdrives only had one bearing and it can be replaced without pulling the motor.

If you have the one bearing setup, You would remove the seal, it looks like the seal is still there, remove the snap ring behind the seal then remove the snap ring/s at the bearing. Once those are removed, you thread a bolt into the drive shaft and pull it with a slide hammer.

I have not done this before, mine has the two bearing type, but know it is possible. you can change the ujoints or try them the way they are. Up to you. I think i'd change them. The bearings in the flywheel cover, aka intermediate bearings, aka pds bearing, are bad and need to be replaced.

Here is the 270 outdrive parts breakdown

http://www.volvopentastore.com/Connecting-Components-Aq-Drive-Unit-270/dm/*******.461180093--**********.737974389--store_id.366--view_id.317190

63 is the bearing, 67 is the seal.

Not sure what else I can do from here.

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

jerrymlewis said:

That last question is "And how do I change the DRIVE shaft bearing?"

Click to expand...

I'm not sure on how to change the bearings in the Ford bellhousing, but for the Chevy bellhousing it is necessary to separate the engine from the housing, since there are two bearings, and they are inserted from both ends of the bellhousing.

But one thing I would like to say, is that it is pretty normal for a Volvo Penta 270-280 drive to say "Grrrr" when turning. The reason is the splined connection between the universal joint and the driveshaft. On 270-280 and older 290 drives, these splines were coarse and this leads to the noise, when turning. On later 290 drives these splines were made finer, which resulted in lesser noise when turning.

If you have worn bearings and so on, you should off course change them, but I don't think you will ever have an old Volvo drive turning as noise-free as a new SX drive.

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

A few more questions:

(previously asked) How do I remove the seal or part of the seal left on the snout/nose where the drive shaft connects to the u-joint yoke?

Any idea of the bolt/thread size for the drive shaft removal with the slide hammer?

Thanks,
Jerry

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

you could hook it and pull/pry it out. Its plastic or rubber.

No help on the bolt size.

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

Tried hooking it, but no budge. It is metal. In fact, it seems to be pressed in from the outside (side I'm on) with about a 1/4" bent (like an "L") edge coming toward me, against the wall of the snout. Behind it I can see a snap ring and bearing but my snap ring tool is too short to reach with this rigid seal or bearing remnant in the way.

Jerry

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

Looks to me like the remnants of a Gaco oil seal. Looks like that seal is toast!

Re: Volvo Penta AQ270 noise when turning

keelhauled said:

Looks to me like the remnants of a Gaco oil seal. Looks like that seal is toast!

Click to expand...

Any clue on how to remove it? And does an oil seal normally have an outer ring (like the lower leg of an "L" perpendicular to the part around the shaft, flush to the wall of the snout)?

Thanks,
Jerry