Should I rewire?

I bought a boat about a year ago that I have been very happy with. Now however, I am having some problems with the wiring. Whoever owned the boat before me must have installed the stereo and most of the wiring themselves, as it is obviously not done very well. It is an absolute mess under my console and along the sides to the battery. TONS and TONS of jumbled wires, and I cant tell what is what.

I guess my question is, should I tear all of this out and start over from scratch? When I adjsut the trim, the stereo cuts out. When I hit a rough spot, the stereo turns out. My trim gaguge and speedo dont work, as the tube for the speedo is jumbled in the wiring mess. The bow lights wit turn on.

I am fed up with it and just want it taken care of. Any idea how much I should expect to pay to get it rewired? Is thsi even worth it? The wires are a mess and just hang down. I woul dhate to be out on the water and have something come loose that leaves me stranded.

Any suggestions??

Re: Should I rewire?

Obviously, you can't continue to operate your boat the way it is. Even if you totally disregard the irritation factor, it is a safety issue and a fire hazard.

As opposed to totally rewiring the boat, I would first remove and additional wiring installed by the previous owner. The stereo, additional lights, amplifiers, depth finders, etc and return it back to the stock factory wiring. This way, you can examine the original wiring and make sure that it's sound prior to continuing. Look for shorted wires, missing insulation, burned spots, bad connectors, corrosion, etc.

After the original stuff has been repaired, you can begin to re-add the aftermarket items the proper way. Wires should be labeled (or color-coded) and bundled together. Proper grounds, fuses, and heat-shrunk connectors should be utilized.

As far as paying someone else to do it, that's something you have to determine whats appropriate for you. Quality work can get expensive. How much work do you want done and how much can you afford?

I rewired a 20' Trophy. Every inch was done with new wire, soldered and heat shrunk. All labeled, battery switch, fuse blocks and buss bars added. However, that was my boat and it took 4 days from start to finish. I'm pretty handy and comfortable around wiring, and I couldn't see a shop doing it any faster, and certainly not any better. At a low price of $50 per hour (plus materials), that job might cost a customer close to $2000.

Sorry for the wall of text.

Re: Should I rewire?

I too had to make that decision. Rewired everything as suggested (crimp, heat shrink).

One major advantage to doing it yourself is that if something does go wrong down the road, you know exactly what you are working with.

Re: Should I rewire?

I'm also in the process of running new wires. You'll be surprised after you remove all the "clutter" as Firman suggests how simplified things will look. If your not color-blind its a pretty easy process.

Re: Should I rewire?

Thanks for the ideas. The problem is that I have absolutely ZERO experience working with electricity/wiring. I wouldnt even know where to start and what runs what. Are there standard colors for certain pieces of equiptment?

Re: Should I rewire?

The most obviose colours you will find or should find are red and black, positive and negitive in the dc world of wire colours.
The secret I have always found is the structured look and bundle (no short cuts (45*+-) all wires run till you need to break out to the appliance/radio ETC )

Re: Should I rewire?

I bought 2 books :

The 12 volt Bible for Boats. And the Boatowner's Mechanical And Electrical Manual: How To Maintain, Repair, And Improve Your Boat's Essential Systems by Nigel Calder.

Good References for those of us who don't know anything.

Re: Should I rewire?

Saw the note about crimp and heat shrink. My first wiring job I used wire nuts in an aluminum boat. BAD IDEA. If you can't get in there to solder, crimping is the next best thing. I should post my experience on SHT so you all can get an expensive laugh.

Re: Should I rewire?

azirish77 said:

Thanks for the ideas. The problem is that I have absolutely ZERO experience working with electricity/wiring. I wouldnt even know where to start and what runs what. Are there standard colors for certain pieces of equiptment?

Click to expand...

Are you sure you're the right person for this job?

Re: Should I rewire?

Buy the "12V Bible", then get your helm to look like this...

Re: Should I rewire?

...and buy an extra fire extinguisher...

Re: Should I rewire?

I would rewire it too.

Re: Should I rewire?

Kermie,
Lighten up...

Re: Should I rewire?

It may not look pretty, but if it works and you are not sure of what you are doing, then leave it alone.

On the other hand if you must, then do one wire at a time, don't remove all of the wires at once. Use marine grade wire at least 16 gauge (better yet 14)

Number every wire and draw a diagram identify every fuse.

if you are just dealing with the 12 VDC switch panels, Iboats has some nice prewired panels you can use

There are some basic skills you can learn, one is putting a proper crimp on the terminals. Soldering and tinning

Have fun

Re: Should I rewire?

I used to be electrically illiterate too before I got my boat but once you get into it and understand the basics it really isn't hard, I recently wired a 6 way switch for my deckhand electric anchor all by myself.

One of the first things I did was wire in a battery kill switch, I carefully connected the positive to one side and the negative to the other, it actually did almost kill my battery.

If you label wires with masking tape flags you really don't need 10 different wire colors, just when you put a new wire on tag the other end with what it is, i.e.BILGE PUMP +, it make s it pretty easy.

Re: Should I rewire?

Wiring is just like painting in that it's 90% prep and only 10% work. I just finished wiring my console (home built) and it wasn't difficult just time consuming.

If you decide to re-wire here are some tips:

Make a sketch of each piece of equipment and create a unique code for each wire that will carry power to something. Plan the work and work the plan. Make copies of your plan and get one copy laminated and keep in the boat.

Start with good quality tinned wire, its made for boats/marine environments and worth the extra $$$.

Get a decent pair of strippers, not the ones that come in those kits with the terminals. I don't know if they have a name but the ones I have you squeeze the handle and the stripper cuts the insulation and pulls it off for you.

If you go with crimp terminals, get a decent pair of crimpers, ones that are made for insulated terminals. I don't know what you'd need for solder terminals as I didn't go that route.

If you go with crimp terminals try to get ones that have heat shrink already on them. I put extra heat shrink on everything, the terminals with heat shrink already attached made a smoother connection to slip the extra heat shrink over. It is probably overkill to double heat shrink everything but if you use a single color heat shrink you will be able to instantly tell which terminals you have already finished

For the wire color you can get by with 2 colors if you label the wires. I went to Home Depot's electrical section and got the adhesive backed letters and numbers electricians use for home wiring. I had a code for each wire (this goes back to the plan) and labeled each wire at both ends. I got some clear heat shrink and covered the stickers, worked like a charm.

As far as materials go, look around there are some great electrical supply places out there. Good luck!

Re: Should I rewire?

Fireman431 said:

I rewired a 20' Trophy. Every inch was done with new wire, soldered and heat shrunk.
Sorry for the wall of text.

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Doug N. said:

If you can't get in there to solder, crimping is the next best thing. I should post my experience on SHT so you all can get an expensive laugh.

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Guys, I'm fairly sure that solder in a marine environment is a very bad idea. I believe that the ABYC wants to see stranded/tinned wire and crimp connections on everything. I also believe there is another thread going back and forth on here that specifically talks about this as well.

soldering is bad for several reasons, including solder being brittle and dissimilar metals, such as the solder, wire, connectors promoting oxidation when dissimilar metals come in contact with one another.

i'd be very curious to hear thoughts from an ABYC certified electrician on this topic and encourage both being corrected and learning new things.

Re: Should I rewire?

ABYC, I am sure is a very good standards organization and that it is responsible for upgrading many repair facilities and manufacturers that have spent the money to belong and pay for their services. I am not against such places, however they are not the be all end all authority. IMHO

In answer to your question, the use of solder in electrical connections is allowed and generally has a caveat about how the solder stiffens the wire. When you use soldered connections, you must support the wire and connection in a way as to reduce the vibration and flexing.

"stranded wire, the solder bonds the individual strands together, making a solid, inflexible wire. ABYC standards prohibit soldering as the sole means of making a connection because the newly solid wire is subject to cracking or breaking through vibration and flexing"

I am not saying that Solder is the best way, however it does eliminate corrosion at the connector where a improperly (and properly) crimped connection would eventually corrode to the point of non conductance.

This is why when you ask about something not working the fist thing people ask is did you check your wiring.

http://www.sailangle.com/articles/details/id/6

Re: Should I rewire?

Yes, it is very overwhelming !!!

Im working on mine too. Im an electrician and I nearly called it quits on my project when I saw the rat nest of wires under the console. Open dead end wires, switches with no wires, a horn with no switch, glass fuses wrapped in aluminum foil ......

I traced out what i had to keep, labeled the wires and made a diagram. Then I cut everything else OUT. Now Im down to a wiring harness waiting for termination. It was PITA but I know it'll be right when Im done. And, I'll feel much better about having my family/friends on the boat.

Good luck. Basic marine wiring is fairly simple. There are digrams here on the forum. Also, your local home repair store can help you better understand wire size, crimps, heat shrink, terminals, switches, etc, etc.

MyViewGS

Re: Should I rewire?

...i'd be very curious to hear thoughts from an ABYC certified electrician on this topic and encourage both being corrected and learning new things.

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First, ABYC does not "certify" marine electricians. I have been wiring boats at the OEM level for 16 years now. I do all my work to ABYC standards, as our boats are NMMA certified, and they use ABYC standards. Section E-11 of the ABYC manual, "AC and DC Electrical Systems on Boats". These are the guidelines we follow, but there is no "certification" process...

The problem with using solder is when the use it proximate to a mechanically fastened termination, as the inability for the lead to flex could cause fatigue, which would lead to failure. On the other hand, soldering of butt splices that are in the middle of a long run of wire is generally accepted because of the wires ability to flex and absorb vibrational stresses.

The only time I solder is with PL-259 connectors on VHF antenna leads. Everything else is crimped, with shrink-sleeving, and I don't think I've had a crimp fail yet...at least that I know of!