Excited vs. Terrified

Ok folks, I'm not sure if this is a general vent or a request for help.

I've wanted a boat for I don't know how many years. I grew up on a lake in NY and it was part of life (although the boats were always owned by my grandparents).

Now in TX, the summer heat and numerous lakes have had a relentless call on me.

I got close to pulling the trigger 4 years ago, after looking at marinas and what they had used, but got laid off from my job (luckily prior to purchasing). It was a tough couple of years, but I'm employed again and working at repairing my financial life.

The heat has returned to TX and I've drifted back to hunting but I have some concerns.

A. How hard is it to obtain financing on older boats and with post-layoff credit. My salary once again more than warrents what I would be paying, but the history could hurt me. Are boat financing companies more or less strict that the auto industry?

B. I have no desire to buy a new boat. The plummeting value and exorbanant expense seems overboard (no pun intended). And I have seen a bunch of boats in my 30 to 50k price range that would be cabin cruiser contenders, but all are from the 70's and 80's. I read article after article of the nightmare of older boat ownership and the difficulties in getting loans, insrurance and parts. But if that's the case, how can so many of them be on the water? Or is this why they are now for sale?

One model that I've got my eye on is a 1973 TROJAN Tri-Cabin 36 Aft Cabin. The pics look like it was stunningly maintained. But, I don't want to get something that's immediately going to need 20k of maint and end up having it dry docked while I save up.

I could get a smaller boat and trailer it, but without parking at my property for it, I'd end up paying for it to sit somewhere anyway and the prices seem comparable for the newer, smaller boats.

Any advice from some of the pros is appreciated. I've never sat on a fence this long and had this much trouble figuring out which way to jump!

Re: Excited vs. Terrified

Agreed that 36' isn't trailerable. What I want is definitely an over-nighter with room for guests. Basically a floating weekender place. But my fear is that's too much for a first time boat and could "live" with a smaller cuddy style boat, but I wonder how long until I got the itch to upgrade would be.

Cash isn't out of the question, but would prefer to finance incase there are repairs up front that will need addressing and being somewhat solvent would help that if it arose.

Thanks for the quick repy!

Re: Excited vs. Terrified

From what I understand, financing old boats is very difficult, as is insuring them (which is part of the problem).
Maintaining old boats is very expensive, so get firm prices first on how much you slip fees (with water and power) insurance and taxes, hauling costs, etc. You will need a good cash reserve left over after you buy.
Overnighting with guests in a cuddy is really not an option. When you are shopping, have you, your wife, a salesman and a mechanic go below, close the door, and sit there for a half an hour. You'll see.

Re: Excited vs. Terrified

Not sure what part of the Lone Star State you're in, but you might look at overnight style party barges like the Party Hut. Probably looking at less initial outlay and less need for restoration/repair expenses since they're just pontoon boats with creature comforts; no glass, stringers, etc. to rot. Wouldn't be like pulling a jon boat, but they can be trailered if you've got enough tow vehicle. You're definitely looking at cash on the barrelhead unless you want to pony up for a newer rig or have a good relationship with a banker who will give you an unsecured loan.

Re: Excited vs. Terrified

I would say start smaller. Make sure that the whole family is into boating as much as you remember you were. Save cash and when you are ready in 2 or 3 years you will be in a much better position to buy the kind/size boat you want and not have to get one nearly as old. It beats going into serious amounts of debt on a big old boat that could become a huge money-pit.

Just my 2 cents for what it is worth.

Re: Excited vs. Terrified

akazanar said:

I would say start smaller. Make sure that the whole family is into boating as much as you remember you were. Save cash and when you are ready in 2 or 3 years you will be in a much better position to buy the kind/size boat you want and not have to get one nearly as old. It beats going into serious amounts of debt on a big old boat that could become a huge money-pit.

Just my 2 cents for what it is worth.

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+1 As several have said on here before, the best boat is the one you own.

Re: Excited vs. Terrified

You're correct in thinking it's hard to finance and older boat.

I purchased mine a few months ago - originally decided on a 13 year old boat in pristine condition, but couldn't find ANYONE to finance it because of the age.

I went a few days later and looked at a brand new boat - had financing offers from at least 3 different banks.

I believe the cut-off was 6 years...anything older than that, you're going to have trouble financing.

Re: Excited vs. Terrified

Bubba1235 said:

If I were to offer a suggestion it would be to save up say $5K and buy a smaller used boat outright. Lots of good deals in that price range right now.

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Ditto on the buying something that you can pay for, and then like several others suggested... you can always move up to something bigger.

Re: Excited vs. Terrified

It's gonna be difficult to trailer anything bigger than about 28', and even that may be impossible depending on your tow vehicle. I would find an early to mid-90's cruiser if you want to be able to sleep aboard the boat, but you're gonna need a/c in Okla/TX. Something like a SeaRay 268 Sundancer, Wellcraft Antigua, etc might be good to look at and can be found around 10K easily, and I'd stick with a single engine since it's your first boat. It would still be hard to get financing on it though.

Otherwise, just find yourself a nice 20-24ft runabout and have fun. The money you save on a less expensive boat could be used for a nice air-conditioned cabin rental for several weekends of the year.

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Ok, this is gonna **** some people off, but I'm gonna say it anyway...... Let me get this straight.....

You were unemployed for two years and your credit got ruined. I've got to figure you either had a lot of repo's or left people you owed hanging with a bankruptcy.

Now you're looking at buying a boat with a price range of between $30,000 and $50,000..... (which is quit a range) and you think somebody should take a chance with you?

Are you serious? If you think you can afford a $50,000 boat, then you should save up about $15k and buy a decent used boat and pay for it straight up.

Wait... are you a US Senator? Or better yet, is your last name Obama?

Re: Excited vs. Terrified

If you want fabulous cabin cruisers for cheap, look at some 80's and 90's Chris Craft's. They can be found used very cheap. I got my 1984 315 Commander in 2003 for 30k (and this price wasn't even that good). It was in fabulous condition in every aspect. They are also very versatile. Mine has a great cabin but is also a contender in the sport fish class. on the flip side, I believe its not a good idea to jump straight to a 36 foot twin engine boat with no experience. (I've been there) It take some practice to learn how to finagle such a boat. (Docking especially can be hell with no experience with that type of boat, I've been there as well) I suggest staring with a smaller versatile boat with a single engine. (I used to have a 70's 26ft Chris Craft Catalina which was awesome. U will never find so much boat in 26 feet)
btw I think what KERMIE B said ^^^^^^ is hilarious

Re: Excited vs. Terrified

Great replies from everyone, well, with the possible sarcasm from Kermie.

In looking for advice from those who have had boats, I thought I'd come here and do some asking around. Looks like there is a variety of opinions.

I've spent the last few weekends checking out different marinas and looking at what's out there a bit more. (BTW, I'm in the Dallas/North Texas area for those that inquired).

My question about financing was purely that, a question. I'm not happy about the financial situation I ended up falling in, but rest assured, it's not like I set out a plan to walk away from any responsiblities. Those who have lost their jobs, especailly those who were higher on the salary scale, in a poor economy had a very difficult time finding a return to employement and income. I was lucky enough that I was finally able to. Aside from catching up on those debts and returning funds to savings, actually getting to enjoy life again after two years of hell, might be nice.

But this isn't a Susie Orman financial seminar now is it. Let's get back to boating.

I've got an Explorer Sport Trac 4wd. It's rated to tow 5200lbs, although that's probably the outer limits of what it could handle. But I'm not opposed to a towable. The benefits I see there are being able to choose different lakes around the region and, as someone mentioned, staying in a local hotel or cabin in the area for the weekend. But I would still have to pay for it to be stored somewhere as I don't have boat parking at my residence.

The benefits of a cabin cruiser would be the lack of need to tow it, and if you're going to have to pay for it to be kept somewhere, it might as well be a slip where you can stay for the weekend/night. I have been looking at those older Cris Crafts. They seem to be everywhere on Texoma and PK lake here. Not dirt cheap, but you seem to get a lot of boat for the funds.

Anyway, I appreciate the time folks took to respond. Still on a fence, but narrowing things down as I research. I agree about the possiblity of getting more boat at first than would be prudent, but the length of time it takes to sell a boat here is excessive, especially in this economy. So moving up is a costly plan in both money and time.

Re: Excited vs. Terrified

With your tow vehicle, your going to be limited to a smaller cuddy.

Like stated there is a HUGE difference between a 20' cuddy, and a 36' Aft Cabin.

It sounds like you still need to make a decision on what boat to get. If I were in your shoes I would narrow a few things down.

1.) Boat: Determine what will and won't work. Go on a 20' cuddy cabin. Take a walk around some mid range expresses, some larger sport fishes, etc. Decide if you can sacrafice the room for the option of bringing it elsewhere. There are very different kinds of boating you would do between the options.

2.) Finances: Determine what you want to spend. I see $30K to $50K mentioned. Instead of borrowing $50K, why not spend $20K cash? I see you mention wanting "rainy day" funds for the boat, but for a large savings from $50K, you could get something older, in great shape and fit what you want. I think the funding and boat type are interchangable as to which to decide first. Funds might dictate what you buy, although in your price range, it might only dictate the boats age.

3.) Other: Family, friends, lifestyle. This goes back to the type of boat topic, but get the family involved. See what the sig other likes. See what kind of boating your going to do. Fishing/Skiing/Tubing or motoring around, anchoring and cocktails. Factor in all costs, all opinions and spend the time onboard every option.

Re: Excited vs. Terrified

My 2 Cents

You are going to pay to store your boat in a marina or a boat yard, I guarantee that dock fees will be higher then storing it in the marina yard or else where

Re: Excited vs. Terrified

Lots of good advice above. One thing I would like to add. A LOT of people buy the maximum boat that they think they can afford...however they tend to forget about maintenance, slip fees and the like.

Oh yea, let's not forget about operating costs! I've worked my up to the small cruiser class (24' for the time being) over a period of years, and there are times I miss my little 'ol 17' fishing boat that I could run all day on 20 gallons of gas! Not that my current ride is horrible on fuel, it burns about 8gph at cruise, but having a small cruiser gives you a strong desire to go places and spend time on it.

Let's not forget that boating isn't exactly a cheap pass time! However in my mind the time on the water with family and friends is well worth the price we pay.


Cliff Notes: Don't buy more boat than you can afford to run and enjoy!

Re: Excited vs. Terrified

I keep flirting with moving from our 26' 1994 bayliner to something in the 30s for reasons you describe; room to entertain, a real lakeside cottage etc. However, I have been weary of going up in size and way older in age. There are a lot of systems on a cabin cruiser, and the painful reality is that on a 20-30yr old they are ALL ready for replacement. It really adds up financially, and you end up spending your liesure time chasing little problems all the time. Unless one of those old Chrissies have been largely remodeled, you really are rolling the dice. I like to look at as a valuation - an old yacht for $30,000 is probably $300,000 new in similar size. So that deep discount is for a reason beyond dated styling. I wouldnt trust a $2500 car for family trips (vs 25000 new) so by extension I wouldnt trust a boat that old and 'cheap'.

Lastly, I am in financial services, and other than a loan against your home, or a very small (less than 10k) personal loan, you cant obtain debt with such questionable collateral, credit score not withstanding. Pre meltdown, some lenders did take these risks, but not these days.

Re: Excited vs. Terrified

I'll chime in as well. New to the boards and just went through a similar decision. We just purchased our first boat together after years of no boating. We decided to get a Sea Ray 215 Express Cruiser (cuddy). It?s a 97 low hours and no one believes it?s more than 5 years old.

We paid $13K and saw many comparable boats in the area and price range. (Plus tax, insurance, outfit the boat with all the safety gear etc.) We do trailer it since we have the space and have overnighted on her five separate occasions already. The only thing I have added is a secondary leisure battery for a power inverter. This is to run a fan in the cuddy, charge cell phones or maybe run a blender. Plan on camping on her every chance I get this season.

Re: Excited vs. Terrified

Thanks Steve and Smat. Both good points of view. Sounds like you got a sweet deal on the cuddy and glad you've gotten some camping in!

Definitely leaning towards cash purchase. Have seen some under 10k boats on boattrader.com and craigslist and have made a few inquiries but waiting to get return calls/emails. Still concerned about buying an older boat for cash, but for 6 to 10k, if it's a nightmare, I'm not 50k into a bottomless hole.

Thanks everyone for the input. Glad I'm not the only one that has tossed around these questions and concerns! I'm just envious of everyone who's already out on the water!

M~

Re: Excited vs. Terrified

I would definately try and rent something in the range that you are looking for so you don't have a cash outlay for something that doesn't fit your needs. High end cuddy's have a very select crowd looking for them and are harder to get rid of if you don't like it. And you kinda limit yourself to one lake since your not going to be towing it. I have been on a few nice cuddy's that seemed to have everything in place and comfortable with adeqaute fishing room. And I have been on other of similar size where you ask yourself all day "what where they thinking when they built this thing" The idea of a cuddy is a good one in that you can stay out on the water but condider your family size and look at the room it provides if everyone is above deck. I would guess a 25' cuddy loses 1/2-3/4 of its space on cabin. That leaves about 8-10' of room, then you have the motor and seats taking up part of that. Anyhow good luck on your search.

Re: Excited vs. Terrified

Come to grips with what you can afford, not what you want.

Not everyone that you see boating has the ideal boat they always wanted. Some do. Those who do usually have a great/stable career, penny pinched to get there and stellar credit, with a great insurance history.

Look around at happy boaters, and you think, "Wow, they are so lucky to have the boat they always wanted. I am going to go get one that I want so dearly."

ATTENTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! REALITY CHECK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It took me (and millions of other boaters) years and years to get close to what we always wanted. I boated for 35 years and 24 as an adult who crawled and climbed to the type of boat I always wanted. I owned various boats and stepped up to what I really wanted.

Perfect credit. Perfect insurance. Same company for 18 years.

Get a boat you can afford. Enjoy it. Then start thinking about the next step you can take.

Fix your finances along the way. Bad credit = bad loan deals and bad insurance rates.

Am I putting you down? NO WAY. I really think the best way to your dream boat is to get your toes wet first. Stabilize yourself. Smile whenever you get on the water, and float/putter around with the next/bigger boat as your goal. Know what that goal is and take steps towards it. I think it is this line of thought that will get you that 36' dream cruiser.