bayliner hotrod project, help w/ top speed!!

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jperki00

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hi everyone i'm new to this forum and so far everyone has been really nice. thanks for the hospitality. i have the 93' bayliner 2052, 5.0ltr merc. thats what it was. here's what i have done: the chevy 305 finally gave out. i built a chevy 355 (350 bored .030 over) dyno tested at 400hp @flywheel. i put i new alpha 1 gen 2 unit on it 1.60 gear. followed by a quicksilver mirage 23p. i'm also in the process of putting the thru hull exhaust on it w/ the ss tips.(internal flappers) any tips on this would be helpful. having alil trouble w/ the steering linkage. any ideas on a top speed w/ this set up. thanks andrew
 

hwsiii

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Re: bayliner hotrod project, help w/ top speed!!

Perk, I need to know what horse power you had in it before you changed the motor, if it did about 44 MPH and how many RPM, what your new max RPM are on the dyno, and if you built the motor with enough torque to balance the horse power. Then I can give you a reasonable idea of expected speed.



H
 

Snobike Mike

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Re: bayliner hotrod project, help w/ top speed!!

That's a lot of HP for an Alpha drive.
 

QC

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Re: bayliner hotrod project, help w/ top speed!!

Hey jperk, welcome aboard!!

Couple of thoughts/concerns. 400 at the flywheel is a LOT for an Alpha. The max they have ever been able to consistently handle is around 325 at the flywheel (300 propshaft). So your right hand needs to be gentle . . .

Also, a SBC with 400 bhp at the flywheel causes concern about the cam selected as high performance cams and marine water cooled exhaust are not always compatible. Who built the engine? Do you have the cam specs?

If this topic is new to you do a search for reversion in the I/O section vvvvvvv

Good luck, if your power claim is accurate then I could see her breaking 60 . . .
 

jperki00

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Re: bayliner hotrod project, help w/ top speed!!

hi everyone thanks for the replys! i am alil worried about the alpha holding together, thats what i've read too, their alil on the fragile side. i will have to be easy on my right hand lol.but some manufacturers put alpha on boats that are alot heavier than mine & they have big V8s in them. they seem to be ok.

i kept my duration around 240/250, lift is at .494. it made 364 ft lb torque at about 4600rpm, peak hp 391 @ 5500

i've researched the top speeds on this boat model. stock w/ v8 power-train and a good prop they can do 55/57 @ WOT.

QC: umm...i'm not sure if i understand what you mean in regards to the watercooled headers & cam compatible.please explain. i'm using the same manifolds & risers that were on the gm 305 that i pulled out.

i've done everything myself. i'm a do-it-yourselfer kind of guy lol. plus to pay a marine shop to do this it'd be a ton of money! lol
 

Mkos1980

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Re: bayliner hotrod project, help w/ top speed!!

Thats a huge cam. Water will be pouring in lol. When your cam gets over a certain limit it'll start to ingest water at idle and slow speeds. I'm running a 218/228 525/525 112 cam and thats about the limit with stock manifolds. I finally got my combo dyno'ed over the winter. 381HP and 401TQ through the manifolds. My alpha 1 Gen 1 is going on its 3rd year already.
 

jperki00

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Re: bayliner hotrod project, help w/ top speed!!

well thanks guys i did alil more reading and i've gotta lower my duration on my cam shaft to about 220. what exactly will happen to the engine if i keep the current cam profile? what changes could be made w/out going to a closed cooling system, i really like the lop. thanks ya'll...i guess this is kinda steering away from a prop/speed discussion.... would the lower duration effect my topend?
 

180shabah

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Re: bayliner hotrod project, help w/ top speed!!

it's all about overlap/LSA, too moch/too little and you start sucking the water out of the exhaust, it doesn't matter of you have fresh or raw water cooling.
 

Mkos1980

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Re: bayliner hotrod project, help w/ top speed!!

You could run stainless risers and dump the water farther back in the pipe or run a dry exhaust and have the water exit holes in the transom. But only very fast or race boats do this. Nothing like your working on.
 

QC

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Re: bayliner hotrod project, help w/ top speed!!

OK, well you are getting some help on the cam deal which is a very common mistake for guys that understand street performance.

On the Alpha thing, it is not weight or size of boat, it is horsepower and torque input. They used to run Big Blocks in front of them too, but that's why Mercruiser came out with the Bravo . . . There are many guys that have made them live and they can be completely replaced for very reasonable money, so not a big deal. You just needed to be aware. Cool :)

Your top speed number may be higher than Mkos' as your boat should be lighter. I am always conservative as 60 is a significant barrier and new boat test data is always 3 - 4 MPH high as the boats got not stuff on 'em. No beer, no people, no tools, half fuel, no water, no beer, no stuff . . . There are a bunch of guys who claim their boats go 60 that have never seen 50, Mkos is not one of them, but trust me 60 is a lot of work so be prepared to play with props and trim and possibly trim tabs to consistently run there comfortably.
 

jperki00

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Re: bayliner hotrod project, help w/ top speed!!

ok, so since i'm already doing the thru transom exhaust modification. i'm reusing my manifolds and risers because the custom ones are quite pricey. my question is could i block off the inlet on my riser and go alil further down the exhaust and tap it in? if i do this should i be concerned w/ heat in the riser?
 

180shabah

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Re: bayliner hotrod project, help w/ top speed!!

if i do this should i be concerned w/ heat in the riser?

Yes you should, that is why the water flows through there in the first place. You do not want 1000* exhaust components in an enclosed engine compartment.
 

QC

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Re: bayliner hotrod project, help w/ top speed!!

I moved this over to the I/O section where it belongs for this part of the discussion. Be prepared for some minor flaming as this is a huge topic and the safety issue with the exhaust temps gets people excited. Good luck!
 

bomar76

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Re: bayliner hotrod project, help w/ top speed!!

I have been running over 450 HP (385 stroker) through an Alpha Gen II for two seasons.
Just have to keep the overlap within reason to avoid reversion.
I have never had a hint of a problem.
I also run a drive shower, shift quickly, run thru hulls as much as possible to keep drive temps down, don't hammer it outof the hole, and if I catch ait be quick on the throttle.

There are plenty of aftermaket risers that dump the water flow further downstream.

Some of these guys are acting like it's armageddon.
 

180shabah

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Re: bayliner hotrod project, help w/ top speed!!

Some of these guys are acting like it's armageddon.

...not armageddon, but it could be the end of the world...
 

wca_tim

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Re: bayliner hotrod project, help w/ top speed!!

just a big of a problem with cam overlap is idle quality. One of the biggest problems with running an alpha drive behind a built engine is having to get the idle consistently below 600 rpms so you don't chip a gear when shifting into gear... a much bigger deal when you're pushing the limits of the drive.

Also, run good grear lube and change it often. I run redline shockproof heavy duty - MUCH better lube for hypoid gears and made to work very well at high temps. There's just about zero lube circulation in an alpha drive...

Your gear ration should work well.

I've not personally seen the problem with overheating one - except where I had a small water intrusion problem and burn an upper gearset up. I sometimes run hard for relatively long periods of time. I don't run any exhaust through the lower unit / drive.

merc exhauts manifolds are the major bottle neck in the exhaust system. You won't see much difference in power between through prop and through hull with stock manifolds. You also won't see the kind of numbers you did on the dyno with your merc manifolds on there - think at least as bad as old factory car manifolds... water jacketed exhaust is expensive, but necessary when you want to make more power. You can get the water further from the engine by adding extension in your risers, but not nearly enough to handle the reversion in the cam you have - although the idle quality issue makes this a moot point... A lot of guys here (including one running a marhia with a blown small block in it) that run larger cams start the engine after they put it in gear... (pushbutton bypass for the neutral safety switch under the dash I think is the way to do that right...)

the cam in my 383 is 226 / 236 (270 / 286)duration, a little more now with the higher ratio rocker arms on it and lashed a little tight. I do have aftermarket exhaust with long risers. I'm likely in the same hp range bomar is especially with the new afr heads.

The only way to be sure about reversion is to run it at idle for a while - IN THE WATER, and then pull a manifold to see if you've got water...

I've had it apart the past week or so. Spent much of today gettign things back together from swappign heads, changing motor mounts, drive and transom service, some interior work, putting engine back in, and adding a few other "minor" upgrades... I just painted the boat in the past few weeks... Good luck with your toy. Cheers!
 

Howard Sterndrive

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Re: bayliner hotrod project, help w/ top speed!!

your point is??? that he has 319 hp at the rpm for peak torque? his peak hp number is at higher rpms, eh...

If he runs at 4600 rpm, the Alpha will only be 6% over its HP max. (most agree 300HP fine).

I'd prop it for a WOT of 4800 or so for drive survival.

or prop it for 5200 and keep spare drives around and check u joints every month or so.
 
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