72 Johnson 50hp problems please help

tcarter

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I have a 72 model johnson I have moved the control box and now when I try to start it is like its in gear I cant find a linkage or whatever it is that puts the motor in gear I disconected the cable at the motor coming from the control box and moved the part it was hoked up to untill it was straight up and down and the motor ran better and didnt seem to be in gear but when I would move it backwards or forward it didnt seem to put the motor in gear I am not sure how to fix this problem oh by the way it says hydro electric drive on the side of the control box dont know if that makes a difference or not thanks in advance for any and all help with this problem
 

tcarter

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Re: 72 Johnson 50hp problems please help

come on guys surely someone knows how to fix my problem
 

mattsanders

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Re: 72 Johnson 50hp problems please help

That motor has an electric shift system. When working proper they are great. when they dont... well they are a money pit. I have a few. They system defaults to forward in the case of a shift failure. There should be an anode that stays charged so it dont happen. If that anode is out or missing, you have what I call a dock bumper. It starts in forward and goes to neutral as soon as power from the stator energizes the neutral solenoid. Will it go to neutral? Buy the way you wont find any linkage. Just 2 wires that go into the lower on the left side.
 

tcarter

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Re: 72 Johnson 50hp problems please help

That motor has an electric shift system. When working proper they are great. when they dont... well they are a money pit. I have a few. They system defaults to forward in the case of a shift failure. There should be an anode that stays charged so it dont happen. If that anode is out or missing, you have what I call a dock bumper. It starts in forward and goes to neutral as soon as power from the stator energizes the neutral solenoid. Will it go to neutral? Buy the way you wont find any linkage. Just 2 wires that go into the lower on the left side.

as far as I know it is in neutral I have started it in a bucket and I have had forward and reverse but now all I have is reverse dont know what the problem is I guess I am going to tear the lower unit off and see if there is a wire loose or something this is so frustrating
 

F_R

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Re: 72 Johnson 50hp problems please help

There are tons of stuff written in this forum concerning the Hydro-Electric shift. I don't know what you are saying about unhooking something--throttle???

Anyhow, to make long story short, there is a switch in the control that is connected to solenoids in the lower unit. Those solenoids only operate a couple of flow control valves in the lower unit. The rest of it is hydraulic shift.

DO NOT just start tearing into it!! Use proper trouble shooting procedures to find out what is wrong with it. What you are contemplating will only lead to disappointment and disaster.
 

tcarter

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Re: 72 Johnson 50hp problems please help

ok so I read on another post how to by-pass the swich for the shifter and with no voltage on the silonoid the motor doesnt seem to to want to stay in forward gear like the post says I was wondering if it is just not spining at a high enough rpm (battery too low) or if there is a problem with something in the lower unit? however I do think that my swich in the control box to shift gears is bad it is cracked all to peices and now will only swich one direction it will still put the motor in reverse so I dont think the silonoid is bad at least I hope not. also I checked the oil in the lower unit and it had water in it so I drained it out and didnt look to me like there was enough in it could this be the problem? thanks
 

Joe Reeves

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Re: 72 Johnson 50hp problems please help

(Hydro Electric Shift System Explained)
(J. Reeves)

The shifting setup of the lower unit is what's called a "Hydro Electric Shift", which is quite complex consisting of voltage being applied to solenoids in the lower unit which in turn change oil passages via a oil pump that supplies various pressure on a spring loaded shifter dog. The wires leading to the lower unit (at the powerhead) are "Green" and "Blue". The engine must be running or cranking over in order to shift out of forward gear.

You CAN NOT use HI VIS lube in that lower unit. You MUST USE what OMC calls "Premium Blend" lube, commonly called "Type C". (A thinner lube)

Note: The engine must be running OR have the driveshaft turning by some other means in order for the engine to shift.

In neutral, you need 12v to the "Green" wire.
In reverse, you need 12v to both wires, the "Green" one and the "Blue" one.
In forward, there should be no voltage to either wire. (The spring loaded shifter dog forces the unit into forward gear)

To check the lower unit for proper shifting to make sure you have no trouble there, remove the spark plugs to avoid problems and to allow a higher cranking speed.

This next step eliminates the actual shift switch in case problems may exist there.... Disconnect the blue & green wires at the knife connectors (the rubber insulated boots) leading to the lower unit at the powerhead, then using jumpers, take voltage direct from the starter solenoid to apply voltage to the "Green" wire for neutral, then both wires 'Green" & "Blue" for reverse (Remember the engine must be cranking over in order to shift).
With no voltage applied, the unit should be in forward. No need for a ground jumper... the lower unit's already grounded. You may crank the engine with the key switch or by energizing the starter solenoid with a jumper wire.


(Toggle Shift Switch Setup For The Hydro Electric Shift Unit)
(J. Reeves)

NOTE (Disclaimer) - The following toggle setup will suffice BUT it is extremely dangerous. Should you use it, you are agreeing to use it at your own risk with myself disavowng any responsibility for its design or use.

Due to the unavailability of the "Push Button" (Evinrude) or "Toggle Type" (Johnson) shift switch that is required for the "Hydro Electric Shift" type lower units that existed between 1968 and 1972, many boaters have asked how they could rig up a toggle switch to perform this shifting function. There may be much better solutions but the following is what I have come up with.

One must keep in mind that wiring a toggle switch in such a manner allows one to accidently shift from forward to reverse at full throttle. This could and probably has resulted in injuries to boaters, not to mention the mechanical damage. Should this or any other problems arise/occur, I am in no way to be held responsible for the toggle switch to shift switch replacement mentioned here.

For the above reason, I strongly suggest that the toggle switch have a hinged hard case cover installed over it so that the toggle can never be thrown/toggled accidentally.

Now, with a single pole double throw toggle switch installed so the "Green" wire connection is facing up or away from you, make the following connections to the terminals on the back of the toggle switch.

......O <--- Green Wire

......O <--- 12 volt Supply

......O <--- Blue Wire

Now, between the Green wire and Blue wire terminal on the toggle switch, connect a diode capable of handling 12 volts (available at Radio Shack etc). Be sure to install the diode so that the voltage will travel from the Blue wire connection to the Green wire connection only...... and not vice versa!

Now, if you have installed the switch as above, with the toggle pulled all the way back (towards yourself), contact will be made between the 12v supply and the Green connection. This puts the unit in Neutral. The diode prevents any voltage from gaining access to the Blue connection.

Pushing the toggle lever to the middle position results in no voltage being supplied to either wire. This results in the spring loaded clutch shifter dog in the lower unit throwing the unit into forward gear.

Pushing the toggle switch lever all the way to the front position will have the center 12 volt supply connected to the Blue wire connection, and due to the diode, that 12 volt supply will also be supplied to the Green wire. This results in having the unit in reverse gear.
 

F_R

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Re: 72 Johnson 50hp problems please help

ok so I read on another post how to by-pass the swich for the shifter and with no voltage on the silonoid the motor doesnt seem to to want to stay in forward gear like the post says I was wondering if it is just not spining at a high enough rpm (battery too low) or if there is a problem with something in the lower unit? however I do think that my swich in the control box to shift gears is bad it is cracked all to peices and now will only swich one direction it will still put the motor in reverse so I dont think the silonoid is bad at least I hope not. also I checked the oil in the lower unit and it had water in it so I drained it out and didnt look to me like there was enough in it could this be the problem? thanks

Well, if the switch is broken, it certainly is bad. Also, the water in the lower unit certainly is a bad sign. There is no of telling from here how much damage is done. The fact that it will go in reverse at least does give some hope. However, not staying in forward is bad. It should default to forward, even if everything else were shot.

Are you aware that the shift switch is about $400? Add to that, the price of a lower unit rebuild, and decide if you really want to go there. Everybody wants to worry about the solenoids. Those are the least of your worries.
 

tcarter

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Re: 72 Johnson 50hp problems please help

what if I get a control box and take the swich out of it are all hydro electric swiches the same? or I may just have to rig up something or sell the motor for parts anyone interested lol :D
 

tcarter

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Re: 72 Johnson 50hp problems please help

found these on ebay will they work?
 

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F_R

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Re: 72 Johnson 50hp problems please help

There are two look-alike switches. One is for Electramatic Shift, and the other is for Hydro-Electric shift. Either one will fit in the boxes, but will not work on the wrong motor. In fact, a Hydro-Electric switch will seriously damage an Electramatic motor. The other way 'round won't damage anything, it just won't work.
 

tcarter

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Re: 72 Johnson 50hp problems please help

There are two look-alike switches. One is for Electramatic Shift, and the other is for Hydro-Electric shift. Either one will fit in the boxes, but will not work on the wrong motor. In fact, a Hydro-Electric switch will seriously damage an Electramatic motor. The other way 'round won't damage anything, it just won't work.

so if I find some controls that say Hydro-Electric shift on them then they will work?
 

tcarter

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Re: 72 Johnson 50hp problems please help

just wanted to say thanks to all who helped me out on this thread I am sure I will have some more questions at some point thanks again
 
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