Used Hypalon Zodiac vs. new PCV Maxxon

F

FH alumni

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Mar 12, 2010
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I think I know the answer to this already but figured before I plunk down the green I should ask the brain trust.

Boils down to 2 boats. Both are from a dealer/authorized zodiac repair center. I live in the northwest and don't plan on really using the boat outside of this part of the country. Boat will be in garage when not on the water so UV is not an issue. I want to get the most bang for my buck.

Current motor is a 15hp 2 stroke 1994 Force. Runs strong weighs 56lbs.

Option 1: Maxxon 12' Glued PVC made in China with inflatable floor. I would purchase the wood floor to give it more strength and performance. approx $1600. Boat has 5 yr warranty and the dealer is the repair facility. Not worried about finding repair facility as the dealer is the main one for the west coast. Local opinion has been fairly good on these boats. Figure I could get 5 years out of it.

Option 2: dealer has a '84 hypalon Zodiac Mark 2 touring made by Avon. The transom has been completely rebuilt by the dealer. boat has 2 small patches also done professionally by same repair center. Fabric is in good condition. It is very flexible, no alligator/crazing, not faded (red in color) and appears to be in greate shape. Aluminum floor boards, upgraded valves (not sure what they are but dealer went on about them for 10 min I guess they are the cats meow, bow skirt/cover. new lines. Price 1695. comes w/ 90 day warranty.

Questions are:

1. how much life could I expect to get out of the Zodiac that is 25 years old? I think this is the better boat but I wonder if I am crazy to expect a 25 year rubber boat to last 5 years. If the seams are good and the transom is basically brand new is this the better buy? Dealer says new boat with same features and construction is over 10K? true?

2. dealer says the older hypalon was actually superior to the fabric made today as it was more robust. Is he just trying to sell a white elephant or is there some truth to this?

3. what are other issues I should look for in the boat?

4. Pass on the used and buy the China PVC?

Sorry for the long post but I really appreciate the help and advise. Going to the dealer tomorrow at 0900 and coming home with one or the other.
 
F

FH alumni

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Messages
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Re: Used Hypalon Zodiac vs. new PCV Maxxon

FYI: future plan is to upgrade to a 20 HP 4 stroke. If that makes a difference on advise.
 
Sea Rider

Sea Rider

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12,345
Re: Used Hypalon Zodiac vs. new PCV Maxxon

FH alumni said:
I think I know the answer to this already but figured before I plunk down the green I should ask the brain trust.

Boils down to 2 boats. Both are from a dealer/authorized zodiac repair center. I live in the northwest and don't plan on really using the boat outside of this part of the country. Boat will be in garage when not on the water so UV is not an issue. I want to get the most bang for my buck.

Current motor is a 15hp 2 stroke 1994 Force. Runs strong weighs 56lbs.

Option 1: Maxxon 12' Glued PVC made in China with inflatable floor. I would purchase the wood floor to give it more strength and performance. approx $1600. Boat has 5 yr warranty and the dealer is the repair facility. Not worried about finding repair facility as the dealer is the main one for the west coast. Local opinion has been fairly good on these boats. Figure I could get 5 years out of it.

Option 2: dealer has a '84 hypalon Zodiac Mark 2 touring made by Avon. The transom has been completely rebuilt by the dealer. boat has 2 small patches also done professionally by same repair center. Fabric is in good condition. It is very flexible, no alligator/crazing, not faded (red in color) and appears to be in greate shape. Aluminum floor boards, upgraded valves (not sure what they are but dealer went on about them for 10 min I guess they are the cats meow, bow skirt/cover. new lines. Price 1695. comes w/ 90 day warranty.

Questions are:

1. how much life could I expect to get out of the Zodiac that is 25 years old? I think this is the better boat but I wonder if I am crazy to expect a 25 year rubber boat to last 5 years. If the seams are good and the transom is basically brand new is this the better buy? Dealer says new boat with same features and construction is over 10K? true?

* At the most 5 more years for the zodiac, a hypalon zodiac will have a max expected life of 30 years well cared for, that is not left outdoors. Zodiac pvc and hypalon sibs are quite expensive, 10 grand is about right, larger can go as much as 15. Anyway, I wouldn't pay more than 1 grand for 25 years use, could be buying a pandora box, full of surprises. If the repair shop has done a great job and states sib is in excelent condition, 3 months is a poor waranty, go for at least 6.

2. dealer says the older hypalon was actually superior to the fabric made today as it was more robust. Is he just trying to sell a white elephant or is there some truth to this?

* Not quite true, will depend entirely on fabric thickness used when boat was built, a new hypalon boat in that same fabric thickness will last same 30 years, to understand this issue there are hypalon fabrics in 0.8,0.9,1.0 mm for sib/ribs uses and 1.1 1.2 mm for military uses, the thicker the better, but exponential costier. The only difference comparing same thickness is that hypalon holds extreme UV punishment if left outdoors and slight more abrassion than same pvc fabric, if garage shaded a + for pvc.

3. what are other issues I should look for in the boat?
* If buying hypalon zodiac, inflate each compartment one at a time to to 3.0 psi to see bulkheads condition, air must not leak to next chamber, deflete and go to the other and so on, if any one of them has this issue, the sib is near garbage, don't put boaters in danger, buy second option, invest your bucks wiser.

Also check: floor fabric, transom, handles, d'rings, tubes, compartments properly glued, floorboards and stringers in good condition.

4. Pass on the used and buy the China PVC?
China boats usually employ good pvc 0.9 mm Koreans brands, so this will not be an issue. A well treated sib can last a minimum of 5 years without needing minor parts re gluing, mainly floor fabric, a weill inflated 3.0 psi sib will maintain tube and transom rigidity.

5-For 20 HP second option, perfect would be wooden or alum floor, air mat no matter how well it's inflated to, rocks and lacks rigidity for top cruise.

Sorry for the long post but I really appreciate the help and advise. Going to the dealer tomorrow at 0900 and coming home with one or the other.
Click to expand...

Let us know what you found and bought ?

Happy Boating
 
P

paulpost

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Messages
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Re: Used Hypalon Zodiac vs. new PCV Maxxon

FH alumni said:
FYI: future plan is to upgrade to a 20 HP 4 stroke. If that makes a difference on advise.
Click to expand...

My personal sugestion is to get the PVC, if want to save some money get one from boats to go, I got one and I'm very happy by the way no afilliation with this dealer, but regarding the engine stick with the 15 hp 2 strokes, is lighter and easir to handle.
Paul
 
Sea Rider

Sea Rider

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Re: Used Hypalon Zodiac vs. new PCV Maxxon

paulpost said:
My personal sugestion is to get the PVC, if want to save some money get one from boats to go, I got one and I'm very happy by the way no afilliation with this dealer, but regarding the engine stick with the 15 hp 2 strokes, is lighter and easir to handle.
Paul
Click to expand...

In that case, better stick with a Tohatsu 2 strokes 18 HP if commercial available.

Happy Boating
 
C

chickendog2010

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
Messages
123
Re: Used Hypalon Zodiac vs. new PCV Maxxon

Why you limit yourself to just these two? I bought a new 2008 hypalon boat online at Defender.com for better price, just 11'2" though.
 
Drowned Rat

Drowned Rat

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Messages
3,070
Re: Used Hypalon Zodiac vs. new PCV Maxxon

Yeah, good advice so far.

I would run from that PVC boat. It is WAAAY over priced and you can find that exact same boat online for around $850 to $1000.

I agree with the above poster that the Zodiac isn't worth more than $1000 and only if it's in very good condition.

My advice, keep looking and stay away from boat dealers for a buy like this. Plenty of used stock on CL or Ebay to be had for fair prices. Or, buy a new PVC boat from an online dealer like www.boatstogo.com, as suggested. Saturn is a good economy brand boat and since you said you wanted the most "bang for your buck" I would highly recommend them.
 
F

FH alumni

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Re: Used Hypalon Zodiac vs. new PCV Maxxon

Well, picked up the boat. I do appreciate all of the advise but when I saw the used one I fell in love. So it turns out I was wrong on a couple of issues.

1. Boat is a 13'9 GRAND RAID MARK II. Yep that's correct the GRAND RAID!!! It has the chrome anti-over inflate valves, you turn them to inflate and then to navigate. AL floor and the bow skirt etc. It has the good 2 part wood oars, and is in amazing shape. This is a professional quality boat. I have no doubt I can get 10-20+ more years out of this thing if I take care of her.

2. Dealer re-did transom, serviced valves (supposed to be done yearly) and gave me a 3 mo. warranty. (CL not going to give me that and inflatables are not common around here) All seams were tested and are in perfect shape. Boat was originally purchased from the same dealer in '84 and was brought in yearly for servicing. I have the maintenance records in hand.

3. Granted it is old but this boat looks to be in perfect shape. It was garaged and I don't think used more than one or two times a year.

4. Given these facts I had to take the chance and jump on this one. Only problem now is I'm eying a new 25hp OB as my 15hp may not be worthy.

I will try to get some pics up when I can. For now it's in its bags in the garage and I have to travel to visit family for Easter tomorrow. Will pump it up this week and start to make her mine. First test run has to be a week from now. This next week is going to be long... COME ON SATURDAY!
 
Sea Rider

Sea Rider

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Re: Used Hypalon Zodiac vs. new PCV Maxxon

If the Zodiac is in mint condition as described with yearly maintenence issues performed, sounds interesting nice purchase, a 15 HP will only be good to cruise to spot, probably won't plane if heavily loaded or more than 2 mates, will need a 25 HP minimum to perform better. Go for a Tohatsu 30 HP, 2 strokes if available in your area. Probably will need a trailer/sib/engine combo for complete water divertimento!! And place some nice pictures..

Happy Boating
 
F

FH alumni

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Messages
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Re: Used Hypalon Zodiac vs. new PCV Maxxon

No new short shaft 2 stroke 25 hp are available, 4 strokes are all that are left on the west coast. 20HP is the max 4 stroke that could easily be carried and put into the back of the pickup. If I could find a good 25 HP 2 stroke I would jump on it, but they are not to be found. In the NW part of the US long shaft is king, short shaft engines are very rare so finding something used is impossible unless it is 20+ years old. I didn't have a problem with an older boat but that is not the same for the power plant. I may trailer it later but for now purpose of boat is to be carried in the back of the F250 while I am towing my travel trailer so a 150lb outboard is a no go. Will not buy an outboard I can't test and look at so some of the online sources are not going to work.

99% of the time boat will be used by myself or with one other buddy for fishing, I have to try out the 15hp to see what it will do but if sluggish I will look into a new OB. Too bad I couldn't find one of the merc or yama 25 2 strokes. I have called every boat dealer in the state of Oregon and told them that I have cash in hand if they ever run across one.
 
F

FH alumni

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Messages
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Re: Used Hypalon Zodiac vs. new PCV Maxxon

TOHATSU GURU, I was hoping you would get on this thread. (it was your posts after all that made be get the used hypalon vs. the new PVC ;) your line about loving PVC because they made you $$ in repairs really sunk in)

Ever gotten any feedback from someone who ordered from them? They don't list a telephone number and appear to only want to talk by e-mail. This is a big red flag for me. If something goes wrong I want to get in touch with a live person. An e-mail in an in box is too easy to ignore and brush off. Especially when we are talking that size of purchase.

One question I have that you may be able to answer. If I had to go with a 4stroke would the extra weight of the 25 160+lbs vs. the 20 100 lbs cancel out the extra ponies? How much improvement would one expect to see from a 15HP to a 20? I know about 25% more power but what would that really be like? If one had to go to 25 HP to get this thing to really move and perform for the same weight would the 30 be better or at that point are we getting into too much HP range? Boat is rated to 55hp but that seems like an awful lot. Besides a 55hp today is MUCH heaver than a 55 was in '84 when she was built. Even though the transom is rebuilt 225 lbs is an extreme amount of weight for rubber and glue.

Thanks for your time!
 
Sea Rider

Sea Rider

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Re: Used Hypalon Zodiac vs. new PCV Maxxon

Just some comments:

The best sib/engine configuration is to place the max rated HP on transom the sib can handle. If placing a small engine like a 15 HP probably won't plane that large sib a 20 will handle much better, 4 strokes weights 10-12 more kilos compared to same 2 strokes versions. If you need to place engine on transom every time sib is used, 4 strokes will be very heavy, I would preffer 2 strokess 15 or 25 HP versions, the 25 probably same weight as 20 (4T) , but with extra 5 HP.

You have to decide if wanting engine portability with low performance or better sib performance and that means bigger and heavier engine, check Yamaha 2 strokes 15, 25 HP engines for availability. Could begin with a 25 and probably could convert later into a 30 HP, a matter of checking tech specs data. Will get bored very quickly assembling, inflating/deflating, placing engine on that huge sib often, have gone through these issues.

Update: In about 5 more years will need to reglue tubes seams as max expected life is 30 years no matter how inmaculate sib exterior hypalon fabric may look, glue is not eternal, crystalizes with time and heat :eek:

Happy Boating
 
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