Problem Turning Engine

bmende · Mar 15, 2010

Well, had to explain in words, but I will try.

I have a 2002 Yamaha 200 HP OSX. I live on the gulf coast of Texas in a waterfront home. I say this because this engine is run often. This winter I began to have problems starting. Took the battery out and check it and it was in good condition. Came back, reinstalled it, and got the power I needed and the engine cracked and started.

Well, I have been traveling a lot this winter and went to "fix" the boat. So, replaced worn parts (blidge pump cartridge, fixing wires. etc.) and tried to start it. It acted like it was seized. The engine has set for 4 months over water (not in water). So, I removed the spark plugs and and tried to turn the engine by hand and couldnt. So, I went and bought some "Liquid Wrench" and sprayed inside the cylinders. Then, waited about 15 minutes and put a wrench on the flywheel bolt and slowly turned the engine. Was difficult. All pistons coming up and down.

Reconnected the starter and turned the key with the plugs out and the engine turned very slowly. Then, put the plugs back in and then turned the starter and it wount budge it. Which, I though was strange. I should have pushed through the compression stroke.

Anyway, I am wondering if the lower unit can get a little siezed up or stiff?

Could I have a weak starter?

Thanks in advance

cousinabe · Mar 15, 2010

Re: Problem Turning Engine

are your cables in good shape? make sure the connections are good on both the battery and motor. pay attention to ground wire.

rodbolt · Mar 15, 2010

Re: Problem Turning Engine

did you try manually turning the motor over with the plugs out ?
did you check the gearcase oil for water contamination?
post the full model number and I may have another idea as well.
if the gearcase was stored with water in it its entirely possible its seized.
and like cousinabe says, check all cables and connections and splices,if any, for corrosion.

bmende · Mar 15, 2010

Re: Problem Turning Engine

I will buy new grounding cables today and install. I have already removed the battery selector switch (for 2 batteries) and found the connections behind the switch in good shape. I also connected the orginal ground and positive cables to one battery and tried it, but it still wouldnt turn the engine. I will buy new cables and install the switch and put 2 batteries available to push the starter this evening and see what happens.

Will let you know what heppens.

Thanks, Brian

99yam40 · Mar 15, 2010

Re: Problem Turning Engine

You can always pull the lower unit off , that will tell you if there is a problem with the motor, the drive shaft, or lower unit

bmende · Mar 15, 2010

Re: Problem Turning Engine

Well, the boat is in a lift and I do nt have access to a trailer right now. I know it sounds crazy, but most repairs are done in the water. If remvoing the boat is required a mechanic comes over and takes it out or I borrow a trailer from a buddy.

Anyway, came home and replace the main cable that conect the batteries in parallel. Still nothing. Measured the voltage at the solinoid (spelling) and it was above 12v. Measured the voltage at the starter terminal when trying to start and the voltage dropped below 7v. I belive that means I need to replace/clean the cables from the battery area to the starter. Is that right?

Thanks,
Brian

99yam40 · Mar 15, 2010

Re: Problem Turning Engine

You need to test voltage at the battery and all the other connections while trying to start not just at the starter to tell where the problem is(checking voltage drop).
If the voltage is dropping at the battery terminals themselves not the cable connectors it would be in the battery or there is too many amps being pulled by starter.

Where are you located here on the Texas coast?

robert graham · Mar 16, 2010

Re: Problem Turning Engine

If motor wasn't fogged before 4 month storage hanging over water, maybe a corrosion problem in cylinders, lower end rod and crank bearings? That would not be good! I hope it's a battery/starter/electrical problem, which would be a lot easier/cheaper fix. Good Luck!

rodbolt · Mar 16, 2010

Re: Problem Turning Engine

and we still dont have a model number.
the X and U models have a drive shaft bushing that can clamp the drive shaft and mimic a bad starter and cause excessive voltage drop.
thats why I asked for a model number and asked if the flywheel turns easily by hand with all plugs removed.

Capt_Tom · Mar 17, 2010

Re: Problem Turning Engine

I am not a professional on marine engines, but ran a charterboat for some time. When one of my engines wouldn't turn over while 40 miles offshore (I always left one running) I tried checking connections, switches, etc. Then, I hooked up a pair of heavy duty jumper cables from the battery bank directly to the engine terminals and it fired right up. The next day, I replaced the ends on my cable and had the same problem. I connected the jumper cables and it again fired up. It seems the positive cable's wire itself had gone bad within the insulation. I replaced all cables (both engines) and never had another problem. I hope that your problem is as simple.

bmende · Mar 17, 2010

Re: Problem Turning Engine

Well, the model is "6G6 X..." the rest of the tag is missing. It is a 2002 200 HP yahama Saltwater Series OX66 Fuel Injected.

Well, replaced the cables fromt he battery switch to the starter motor. I read 12v at the solenoid and 0v at the starter. Turned switch and read less than 8 volts at the starter and less than 8 vots at the soleniod. Did the same at the battery and read 12v at rest and about 10v when starter is engaged. What is interesting is that the wires DO NOT get hot when loading the started. I would think at a locked rotor condition the motor would draw max amps and thus really heat the conductors.

I have removed the plugs and the motor does turn but not easily. I took one of the batteries to Walmart and had it tested at 510 amps and he said it was good. I am starting to wonder if that is the case.

I am think of getting one new battery and giving that a try.

Any input?

robert graham · Mar 17, 2010

Re: Problem Turning Engine

If the drive shaft bushing was clamping down on it, wouldn't that make a sqealing noise? Do those bushings just get tight like that?

trendsetter240 · Mar 17, 2010

Re: Problem Turning Engine

Try what Capt_Tom suggested; get some jumper cables and jump directly from the battery to the starter.

Red - positive battery terminal, black - negative battery terminal

Engine side black to engine ground (where the black power cable connects to the motor).

With the 3 connections above touch the Red cable to the Positive terminal on the starter motor. It should start cranking right away. If this doesn't work it will eliminate the question of the connections between the bat, solenoid, starter assembly.

bmende · Mar 17, 2010

Re: Problem Turning Engine

Did the jumper cable trick, still nothing. Will go get a new battery and see if that does the trick.

bmende · Mar 17, 2010

Re: Problem Turning Engine

Team, the model number. It is a "X" a 6G6-X Yamaha 200 HP OS66 Saltwater Series.

The tilt trim was down for a while and I couldnt break the seat screw to lift it to put oil in the pump. So, the lower unit was submerged in my lift. Enough to grow barnicles on it. This was last summer.

I live on North Padre Island in Texas, so the weather is pretty much warm and never freezes. I do not think my rings or crack are stuck. I can turn the engine with a prybar and socket. Do you agree?

I am borrowing a trailer tomorrow and will remove the lower unit (I should replace the water pump anyway) and will post my findings. I would appreciate it if you keep track of my post.

And, thanks for responding to my post.

robert graham · Mar 17, 2010

Re: Problem Turning Engine

Maybe that foot submerged in the water for 4 months with the rest of the boat out of the water set up a strong electrolysis/corrosion inside the motor? Setting right on the water with all the dampness and humidity, did anyone fog the motor before leaving it? Don't sound too promising, but hope for the best, and keep us posted on what you find. Good Luck!

rodbolt · Mar 19, 2010

Re: Problem Turning Engine

that X is part of the seriel number. need the model or the full seriel number.
most of the SX200 motors will be SX200TXRA or SX200TURA depending on the shaft length.
the X denotes 25" and a U denotes 30". both have a drive shaft bushing.
an SX200TLRA would denote a 20" model that did not use a driveshaft bushing.
the A denotes its a 2002 production run.

bmende · Mar 19, 2010

Re: Problem Turning Engine

Good news and bad news, actually mostly good news.

I got the boat out of the water and began to remove the lower unit. All the bolts came out without and problems (I blew a sigh of relief). Anyway, started to work the lower unit down and is very difficult. Beat on it with a piece of wood, tried not to pry it, etc. Anyway, got it out about 2" down and was sayig to myself "this shouldnt be this hard". So I looked up to the driveshaft and saw a lot of corrosion where the shaft goes up through the housing. I have sprayed it with a penetrating oil. Is there a better way or should I just beat it down.

Well, the good new is, with the driveshaft diengaged fromthe engine, I went over and turned the engine to see what happened. And.. it was free!! No engine problems. It appears I have a binded driveshaft.

Going back the engine model number I would give it except the stick is off the engine (I bought the boat used from a private party seller). I do believe it is a SX200TXRA.

Any help would be appreciated.

bmende · Mar 19, 2010

Re: Problem Turning Engine

Well, I got the lower unit off. The bushing was binding the driveshaft. There was corrosion behind the bushing which caused it to tighten around the shaft. Now, do I really need that bushing?

I am working on removing the corrosion in the bushing seat.

Engine turns free, lower unit turns free, all is good!

robert graham · Mar 19, 2010

Re: Problem Turning Engine

As usual, Rodbolt was right on target, but we learned something here about stuck drive shaft bushings, which I had never heard of. This should be a fairly easy, simple and inexpensive fix, especially compared to corroded cylinders, bearings, crankshaft. Glad you came out so well!

Problem Turning Engine

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