ANY Suzuki Techs out there [tucked the wires,lost the fires]

I have an 88 suzuki DT 200. The motor has no fire at all. I have checked the ign switch . it is working proper. The kill switch is addind and taking the ground away from the mag. I have taken resistance[?] readings the service manual calls for . All the coils under the flywheel have the correct readings according to the manual. But when I check for output voltage I am not gettin no reading ,the tester set on volts it just flashes the small lights on the side that tells you if you are testing ac or dc. . But I can take my test light and check the black red and green wire and the test light will flash as the motor turns . these wires are suppose to have 135 volt output, but from the brightness of my test light it looks like about 10 volts. The manual says use a stevens tester. I have a fluke , It should do the same test? The black red and the green will pass this same voltage through the power pack. I have some pics of my wiring and my tester I can post. I have the complete harness and electric components from an engine that shot craps running wide open. I changed the pulser coils and charge coils ..... the stator plate and all coils from other engine, same readings.

COULD the flywheel cause this. Owner says turned the boat off to change skiers and never started again. I know the customer may not tell the whole truth. I am lost .

Re: ANY Suzuki Techs out there [maybe RODBOLT]

Re: ANY Suzuki Techs out there [maybe RODBOLT]

A fluke meter is fine, that's what I use (2 of them infact) but you do need a DVA adaptor to plug into your meter, or it won't work, period. You can source a DVA from Snap on, Rapair/CDI, ESI, or Stevens instruments.

2 things come to mind. Either you don't have enough voltage from the stator to get the packs/coils to fire off or you have a short in the harness/keyswitch/lanyard.

To test the stator you do need a DVA. To test for a short, simply disconnect the harness at the cannon plug, leave the battery cables connected and spin the motor with a remote starter button. You do need an appropriate spark gap board or tool. Holding the spark plug to ground and seeing if that sparks doesn't cut it.

Re: ANY Suzuki Techs out there [maybe RODBOLT]

Re: ANY Suzuki Techs out there [maybe RODBOLT]

Thanks for the reply.
I have disconnected the harness from the plug with the same readings. With the weak light on the test light I am sure the stator is puttin out little voltage. What would cause low or no out put. Having the problem with 2 different stators I set the clearance on the pulser coils on one of them from nothing to 30 thousanths. Same results. I have seen bad flywheels on some evinrudes but they would still fire just not right. I have double,triple checked all grounds.
I ordered a DVA .

I do have a sprak tester and I have held the plug to the block, but now I"M just grabbing the wires hoping it knocks my @*&^^% off .

Re: ANY Suzuki Techs out there [maybe RODBOLT]

Re: ANY Suzuki Techs out there [maybe RODBOLT]

actually I dont mess much with suzuki anymore.
however when your motor was almost new I was a suzuki tech.
I have both the service manual and the electrical testing manual for that engine but its residing in a box in my storage building
hopefully this weekend I will get out the last 6 boxes then I can help.
you will have to have a DVA adapter for your fluke meter.
you will have to test charge coil output voltage,pulser coil out put voltage and CDI output voltage to narrow down what failed.
sounds like its either going to be a shorted stop wire,bad charge coil or a bad CDI box.

Re: ANY Suzuki Techs out there [maybe RODBOLT]

Re: ANY Suzuki Techs out there [maybe RODBOLT]

here is a DVA that you can make yourself if you want, it was within a few volts at 200 VDC when I tested against a DVA meter I borrowed

Re: ANY Suzuki Techs out there [maybe RODBOLT]

Re: ANY Suzuki Techs out there [maybe RODBOLT]

I got fire today
Thanks for all the help.
DVA was the deal.

Re: ANY Suzuki Techs out there [Fixed it] THANKS

Re: ANY Suzuki Techs out there [Fixed it] THANKS

Original stator was bad.
Other stator was not passing proper ground.
The common ground that hooked to all coils showed 12 volts with meter and test light ,but did not have enough ground to make the 135 volts the coils needed.
I added a ground from the coil leads to the block.

Re: ANY Suzuki Techs out there [Fixed it] THANKS

Re: ANY Suzuki Techs out there [Fixed it] THANKS

What kind of voltage did you finally get after you grounded them properly?
135v was a minimum if I am remembering properly, but the readings are normally a lot higher.

Re: ANY Suzuki Techs out there [Fixed it] THANKS

Re: ANY Suzuki Techs out there [Fixed it] THANKS

It was toward the end of the day and the battery was weak. But I was getting 140 + at the first of the crank and then it was dropping off to 129 + or - after the engine turning slowed a bit. Going to charge the battery today and tuck up all the wiring, and take a new reading on all coils. The #1 was only getting 49 to 65 , I am going to change the packs this morning and try to get the correct voltage on all 6.
Thanks again for all suggestions and help provided by all.

I have told myself 100 times to quit taking on motors that has been to 2 other shops and then the owner tries it ,before bringing it to me. But it feels good to fix them.

I feel I have this one on the ropes.

Re: ANY Suzuki Techs out there [Fixed it] THANKS

Re: ANY Suzuki Techs out there [Fixed it] THANKS

Rule of thumb is stator output should fall between 100 to 300 VDC. Power pack output to the coils the should also be the same. Some boats will fire off under 100volts, but it's eventually going to start missfiring and it's going to quit. If your getting substantially lower voltage out of the pack than what goes into it, it's a sign that the packs on its way out as the capacitors are not storing the entire charge. (ie- lets say your putting 180 volts into the pack from the stator, but your only getting 120 out, it will work for a while, just a sign that it's going to go south eventually)

Re: ANY Suzuki Techs out there [tucked the wires,lost the fires]

I unwrapped all the spagetti and put the wires in their places, and lost all fire again . I did not go back to the stator yet. The power pack is putting out 130 to 150 volts going to the coils. I have hard wired all the grounds [AGAIN].
FIXING TO BURN this one. When I did get fire . I had everything unpluged from the pack but the stator and the coils. So I have once again removed all wiring from the controls,sensors,relays,rectifiers,Idle switch............everything.
If I have voltage going in the coils, all 6. What would cause the coils not to pass fire. I know ........a ground......
I have votage with both packs . the #1 was low voltage because I had the coil off while checking, it picked up after I attached the coil to the wires. So both packs are reading good or at least showing voltage.
I am not going to work on it any this week . I have to make a check this week.

Re: ANY Suzuki Techs out there [tucked the wires,lost the fires]

Now the IC power source coil has low readings 155 ohms should be 210-300 .
Out put is only 33 volts . Should be 60 or over.
I am checking ohms with the coil removed from the stator.
I know the readings say its bad, But it just fired a couple of days ago. Wondering if the pack [cdi] is blowing the power source coil.
Both coils I have are giving the same bad reading.
All pulser coils have good readings .
counting coil reads good.
condensor charging coil output is in the 80's should be 135 or over,again this was just putting out .
Forgot the reading I got on ohms on the condensor coil, but both condensor coils I have are now giving the same bad reading also.

Re: ANY Suzuki Techs out there [Finally started]

Re: ANY Suzuki Techs out there [Finally started]

I got the motor to start today. Thanks for all help and suggestions. Now I am going to try to fix the rpm drops he was having before he lost fire. I hope the firing was his problem all along.

Thanks to all
Danny

Re: ANY Suzuki Techs out there [tucked the wires,lost the fires]

What all did you have to do finally to get her to fire up?

Re: ANY Suzuki Techs out there [tucked the wires,lost the fires]

Long and short of it . Finally got the right out put from ALL components under the flywheel with parts from both systems. The low volts from the ic charge coil had to do with the 18 degree weather.
Then got the right output from the cdi ,hooked up the plug wires,sprayed the carbs with quick start ,hit the button and it fired right off.
Next day hooked up the wires from the oil warning reset and warning system and lost fire again.
Unhooked them firing again.
Now I can run the engine but cant kill it
I put another oil sensor on it and all showed good, cranked on it , it hit 1 lick and lost fire again. So I unhooked the second one and it fires again,just cant shut down.
The owner removed the oiler.
So I am going to clean oil filter sensor and hook up the oil tank ,purge the lines and get the whole system hooked up and see if oil in the tank will stop g the low oil sensor from triggering
It should only shut engine to 3000 and resume full throttle for 30 minutes after reset, but I dont know about know oil at all in the tank.
I cant find a test for the sensor giving me the trouble.

Re: ANY Suzuki Techs out there [tucked the wires,lost the fires]

maybe Rodbolt will come back and give some help.

I did not think the low oil would shut down the fire, just retard the timing, but I do not know that much about these old large Susuki motors.

Kind of sounds like a wiring harness problem or they are designed to shut down with no oil.

Re: ANY Suzuki Techs out there [tucked the wires,lost the fires]

The manual says oil will limit the rpms.
After more reading I am going to try rehooking some of the wires out of the oil sensor.
I noticed that while unhooked it also sends signal to the idle speed adjustment and it looks like the mag wire runs through it also.
I cant kill it if I have no mag wire hooked.
I believe not all the wires are killing it.
Just a little more research today.
Thanks Danny

Re: ANY Suzuki Techs out there [tucked the wires,lost the fires]

OK I can unhook all warning wires from the low oil sensor unit and the motor will run . I can start hooking wires and get all but the plug that connects the cdi to the low oil sensor. connect the sensor to the pack and none of the other wires still kills engine .
One of my many days when I lost fire . The pack would only put out 28 volts to the coils, I unhooked the L.O.S. and got full voltage. I had another oil sensor so I hooked it up and coils picked up correct volts. So I cranked it and it only hit briefly and then it was dead again no more fire.
So today I started the engine with no sensor ,again as soon as I hooked oil sensor [#2] in the engine died . I unhooked oil sensor 2 and started the engine and hooked up the first oil sensor that quit on me a week befor and the engine continued to run for about 10 or so seconds then it went dead and will die every time I plug it in now.
I read to do the oil reset with engine running so I started again and pushed the reset and as long as I hold the reset it kills engine as soon as I let off it continues to run.
It has no oiler on it right now. But I have no sensors hooked up to the gauges or the heat ...........everything that goes to low oil sensor is unhooked. Would that make the sensor shut down the engine with no info at all or is the low oil sensor just bad. The book doesnt give any test for the oil sensor unit.
Any more suggestions.

Re: ANY Suzuki Techs (Rodbolt) out there [tucked the wires,lost the fires]

Re: ANY Suzuki Techs (Rodbolt) out there [tucked the wires,lost the fires]

Lets see if I understand you properly. You said "I read to do the oil reset with engine running so I started again and pushed the reset and as long as I hold the reset it kills engine as soon as I let off it continues to run".

Does that mean that you had to have the LOS disconnected to start and run the motor and that it would die when you pushed the reset button, but would run when the reset was not pushed in( normal position)? All the time without the LOS connected. And if you plug in the LOS the motor will not start or run.


Are you sure the thing you read said while running or just with key in the on position with the LOS connected. I do not claim be be someone that knows much about your motor, but just thinking about what I have read before and trying to make sense of what is happening.

Rodbolt your expertize and knowledge is needed on this one

Re: ANY Suzuki Techs out there [tucked the wires,lost the fires]

Thats correct . Book says reset with engine running. Low oil sensor has to be unplugged from the CDI for the engine to run. It will kill engine with the key on or off .
Still dont understand the 10 second delay before it died with the 2cnd sensor. I didn't mess with it today. Tomorrow I will see if the sensor kills it right away or delayed. If it delays I am giong to try purging the oil system and hooking it all up. Just to see if the sendor in the tank or the throttle sensor or the sensor between the oil tank and the oil injector, not sending a signal at all to the low oil sensor is making it shut down the power pack.
All wires at the switch are working proper ,all the way through the cannon plug at the back.

Thanks