Kicker Motor .... Good Idea?

Let me start by saying that I am brand new to boating. I bought a 32 year old 20' Sea Ray cuddy last year and only had it in water once (and that was when I took it out to change trailers), that was my first boating lesson ..... look at the condition of the trailer.....

I live in Oregon so most boats get put to bed around here during the winter. My intent was to use this boat to fish the ocean. I am no fool and so only intend to take it out in the ocean when weather/wind/waves are favorable, the rest of the use will be bays, rivers and lakes when conditions make the ocean experience a bit more hazardous. The boat has a 302 ford with a Mercruiser out drive, and when I took it out that one time last year I found that it would get just a bit above 40 mph at full throttle. As I've said I am new to boating, and to me it just makes sense to have a back up motor, especially if I intend to go 10, 20 miles or more off shore after tuna or halibut. I have been reading everything I can find concerning the ability of a kicker to push a boat of my size about, and all I can find is conflicting information. Some seem to think it's a waste of time because a kicker won't do much in unfavorable conditions and recommend buying a SeaTow membership (there is no such thing at the central Oregon Coast), others say it is a good idea to have a back up kicker motor ...... but then the discussion seems to move on to kicker motor size.

So my question then is two fold: assuming that I have no intention of venturing far off shore when the weather at present or even the possibility of a change is imminent, is having a kicker a good idea or a waste of money and excess weight hanging off the rear of the boat. I understand that I can use the kicker for trolling, but that's not the question here, it's safety related first and trolling secondary. And if a kicker is a good idea, how large of a kicker should I buy, my boat is a 20' deep V cuddy in excess of 3500 lbs ..... so an 8 hp, 9.9 hp, 15 hp or what? Since it's a given that a smaller kicker is not getting this boat up to planing speed, is a 15 hp which is almost double the horsepower of an eight worth the extra price and weight.

I Thank any and all ahead of time for the help. ........... Pete .............

Re: Kicker Motor .... Good Idea?

A kicker is a good idea. Typically, the 9.9's and 15s are the same weight so definitely get the 15. I would think a 15 would push your boat pretty decently.

Re: Kicker Motor .... Good Idea?

40+ mph from a 20' deep V cuddy with a 302 sounds reasonable to me. The backup power certainly makes for a "teddy bear". I'd like the idea.

OB's are usually 2 cycle so you will need a separate fuel supply with probably 50:1 oil mix; unless you spring for one of the newer 4 cycles. A new one would be a large investment for something you may never use. Fuel consumption is regularly posted herein to be about 10% of the hp in gallons per hp per hour (as I recall) so a 6 gallon tank with a 15 hp at full throttle would probably move you at 3 mph (guess) so 6/1.5 = 4 hrs @ 3 mph = 12 miles.

So if you are going out 20 miles, looks like a pair of 6 gallon tanks would be in order. You just added a couple hundred pounds to your boat plus the clutter of the fuel. Course you could take one tank with some extra oil and transfer gas from the main tank and mix it in the OB tank, but that is mighty mighty risky. I've transferred fuel on the water before. It isn't easy and it certainly isn't safe. Having the second tank with a QD is certainly the way to go.

Access to the kicker engine from an I/O may be severely limited when trying to set it in place (dropping it down) or operating it. May be best to lock the tiller so that it just pushes dead ahead and use the outdrive for steering. Obviously the I/O needs to be in Neutral. Minor point but helps to reduce the drag and could save wearing your your overrun clutch in your I/O's lower unit. Course if you could get to the kicker for steering then you could raise the outdrive which be the best thing to do.

Remember, in mounting the kicker, it has to be in the slipstream. If you can't see the full propeller, in the run position, from under the hull, as viewed from the bow area, it won't push the boat. Might go around some marinas or boat dealers and get some ideas as to what others have done.

My 2c

Mark

Re: Kicker Motor .... Good Idea?

I have a 21 foot Aluminum boat weight of 2800 pounds.
We used it about 50 percent of the time in the ocean since 1980 when it was new.
I will not head out into the ocean unless both the main motor and the Kicker start at the dock. About 2 year ago we used it to head in when the main motor just shut off about 5 miles out of port. I put the wife on the wheel and told her to head in. Then troubleshot the main motor and found bad set of points. Replaced them in less than 10 minutes from when it shut off. After that we headed on out on our fishing trip.
I can tell you it is a good feeling when you know you can make it in safely should the main motor have a problem.

My boat I have a 15 HP long shaft Johnson and the weight is 79 pounds plus a 6 gallon fuel tank.
The motor must be a long shaft or even better a extra long shaft.
The motor also need a large high thrust prop with a low pitch.
My prop I use the most is 10 inches by 7 pitch by 4 blade and has a exhaust vent where the exhaust does not come out the back of the prop when backing.
While we have only used it to head in one time in over 30 years we use it almost every day fishing.
We fish out of Bodega Bay 50 miles North of San Francisco and the average summer day have swell from 3 to 10 feet.
With our boat we will not launch is the swells are over 8 feet or if they are less than 6 seconds apart.
We have been out in 9 feet every 6 seconds and building with 38 knot NNW winds
but it was not much fun and we came in way early with half a limit.

My motor is on a lift braket with 15 inches of lift and we steer with a EZ Steer.
We use it most days to back into the swells and the wind to slow our drift and catch more fish.
My motor with a long shaft and motor all the way down will go completely under the water on very large swells
and still the prop will sometimes come out of the water as the swell pass under the boat.
So we just run the motor in reverse at idle speed to slow our drift.
Before I got the 10 inch high thrust prop we would have to run kicker as a higher speed.
This was a problem as when the prop came out of the water it would throw water up into the air and wind would blow it all over my Stern Starboard fisherman.
Also one time had way too much power on and when the prop came out engine rev up and when the prop
droped back in the water the shock broke the Flywheel key and motor quit.
With the 10 inch high thrust prop idle speed is plenty to slow our drift and Fishermen stay dry and motor does not rev up and break flywheel key.

We will also not go out into the ocean without GPS or Loran C.
I normally use 2 GPS Units plus my old 1981 Loran C.
We were out only one time and 20 miles North and came back South to find very thick fog.
We made it in ok but the first time we were almost in the Breaker before we could see the Breaker hitting shore.
Next try we went to the whisle Buoy about one mile out and then I use a compass heading that I had logged from that buoy to the channel and made it ok.
That was the last time out with out navagation gear.

Re: Kicker Motor .... Good Idea?

Boatist, I'm always glad when you chime in on kicker threads cuz you have a sweet set up there.

Re: Kicker Motor .... Good Idea?

Thank you all for the comments ..... I appreciate them very much. And Boatist, I thank you for sharing some of your experiences and great set of pictures. I was considering a 4 stroke 8 to 9.9 horse ..... if I was going to add a kicker at all. Now I am becoming convinced that a 15 HP for my size boat would be a better idea and also perhaps an older fine running 2 stroke rather rather a heavier 4 stroke might not be so bad after all. I see that some of the older 15 horse Johnson's, Mercuries or Evinrudes are down in the 70 to 80 LB range while the newer 4 strokes add 40 to 50 Lbs to the weight.

Re: Kicker Motor .... Good Idea?

Me too. Boatist, great job and I know this is some vital info for a newbie to offshore fishing. On fog, I have only been out once in the fog and it was on a 30,000 acre lake, not the ocean and the waves were like 6 inches, not 6 feet. Talk about erie feelings. Yucko.

Again, great job and the pics were just icing on the cake.

Mark

Re: Kicker Motor .... Good Idea?

Thanks for all the nice comments.
A few things that I did not mention.
First my top speed with the 15 wide open is about 5 miles per hour in a lake.
Also at about half throttle it is about 4.5 miles per hour.
As far as power goes out in the open ocean with 6 foot Swells and 15 knots of wind which is normal here all summer.
The motor just has enough power to turn up into the swells and wind.
This is in part because my boat is light aluminum and the front cab catches some wind.
The wind an sea will turn my boat down wind very fast and because it has very little keel the 15 HP just pushes the stern around fast enough to be able to turn up into the wind and swells.

To be honest I have been looking at a 20hp honda 4 stroke with electric start and a 12 amp alternator.
The weight is about 120 pounds but you do not have to have the 54 pound gas tank.

The problem I have with the motor going under the water on big swells then the prop
coming out as swell passes under the boat is mostly becaues of my kicker bracket.
If you look at the picture you will see how far the kicker is behind the transom this is why the
swell cover the motor before the boat starts to rise and why the motor is in the air when the swell pass under.
If I was to start over I would get a lift bracket that has less than 15 inches of lift.
I think they make some that are only 11 inches putting the motor closer to the transom
and would have less chance to go under the water and less chance to come out of the water.
This is usually only a problem when swell are about 8 feet and 8 or 9 seconds apart so Very Steep Swells.
Even if the swell are 10 feet but 15 or 20 seconds apart motor never goes under and never comes out because the swell are not very steep.
This happens in winter time when may have a storm far out to sea but allmost no wind near shore.

My motor lift bracket is actually two brackets rated at 120 pounds each.
I started with just one and it worked pretty well on the water but the motor was a little hard to lift.
On the trailer going down the road the motor would bounce a lot and also sway side to side more than I liked.
So I added a second bracket then with a stainless steel bolt some PVC pipe and some nylon lock nuts connect the two release lever together.
Changed the motor mounting board to tie both brackets together.
This stoped the side to side sway and really help the bouncing.
It also made it much eaiser to lift. When putting down the motor will go about half way down and
stop then to get all the way down must push on the top of the motor.
To raise up release and motor will raise up about two position then must lift from the handel.

Along the California North Coast almost every day in summer have dense fog in the morning (about 25 to 50 feet visiabilty).
By 9 am will start to lift so may 1/2 mile visiabilty and could be 2 miles by noon.
If you see blue water to the North Northwest button down the hatches as before you see blue sky will see wind to near 40 knots with seas building and wind blown whitecaps on at least every other swells.
In about one hour will be getting pretty rough and time to head in.
Sea temperatures here range from 49 to 51 degrees but did see 61 one year.

The EZ Steer so you can turn the motor with the steering really makes a big difference.
If I just locked the kicker down and tried to steer with main motor as a rudder I would not be able to turn up into the wind and swells.

Your boat may be different as my Bow is very light and can be blow around very fast.
Most of My weight is in the stern, a 3.0 4 cylinder I/O and the kicker.
Then the fuel in mid ship and the bow just has 2 anchors 500 feet of line and lots of gear under the deck.

Re: Kicker Motor .... Good Idea?

Check with boat us for a towing membership most west coat ports use vessel assist not sea tow.