383 volvo upgrade?

peejcj8

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Ive been following the other 383 upgrade post, lots of good info.

At some point I will be doing a engine swap, I too have been looking at the 383 motors.

I have a 260hp volvo in my 1979 24 albemarle, (stock except for the edelbrock marine carb) was thinking about adding a 383 with 350 hp and swapping prop out to get more MPH.

My goal is more MPH, with minimal effect on MPG.

was looking at the 383's on this site http://usengine.us/volvopenta.html
 

Bondo

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Re: 383 volvo upgrade?

Ayuh,... I don't really see a Question,...
But, 'ell,.. Go for it,...
 

peejcj8

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Re: 383 volvo upgrade?

I guess I was looking for a discussion. lol

Your right, better to ask a question.

I guess my main goal is speed increase of 5-10 mph, taking me from 22kts to closer to 27-30kts at 3400 rpms.

I can get 30kts now out of my 260hp, but at 4200 rpms.

would a 383 stroker get me what I want without killing my economy?
 

Bondo

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Re: 383 volvo upgrade?

Ayuh,... I donno as you'd get That much, at those rpms,...
But,...
100hp should give you close to the 10mph, at wot...
 

bruceb58

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Re: 383 volvo upgrade?

What prop are you running now? How much does your boat weigh?

In order to get the speeds you want, you can kinda figure what prop pitch increase you would need to have. The question is if the new engine would be able to turn it. The crtical specification is what the torque is in the area where you are trying to get up on plane.
 

peejcj8

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Re: 383 volvo upgrade?

I do not know what duo props I have now, one day Ill take them off and ask the prop guy.

I know I will need to swap props, so i guess I need to know what the gain would be in power at 3400 rpm?

In my mind, Im thinking about getting a increase in HP will allow me to run taller prop and get more mph at the same rpm as what i have now.

My boat weights about 5000 pounds in fishing config.
 

mkast

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Re: 383 volvo upgrade?

The ninty horsepower difference between the 260hp and 350hp is measured at WOT not 3400RPM. At 5,000 LBS. (with you, your friends, food, fuel and junk, the weight is???)
you might need a tad more engine to cruise 10 kts. faster.
 

peejcj8

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Re: 383 volvo upgrade?

So I should shoot for a 5 mph gain with the 350hp 383?
 

Bondo

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Re: 383 volvo upgrade?

Ayuh,... You can Shoot for whatever you want,...
Or,...
Just Do It,+ see what ya Get....

Look at it this way,... It'll do everything the current motor will do, only Easier,+ Possibly Better...
If your current Props can't absorb the added Horsepower,... Cross that bridge Then...

It's Better to have More Horsepower than you can use,...
Than Not have the horsepower when you Really need it....

I was gonna add that you can Never have Toooo much horsepower in a boat,....
But I've done it myself, too many times....:rolleyes: :D
 

bruceb58

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Re: 383 volvo upgrade?

My caution is that you will almost certainly require a gear change when you add 90-100 H.P. I don't think you can do it with just a change in prop and still run efficently. A gear change on a VP is NOT cheap at all. (Not cheap with any of them but VP is the most costly.)
I really doubt he would need a gear change unless he is at the upper range of the duoprop sets. He is more than likely only going to be able to go up one number on the propset anyway.
 

Don S

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Re: 383 volvo upgrade?

Let me see if I have this right. You want to gain 5-10 MPH, while still at 3400 rpm, and keep the same MPG.

Assuming that is what you want, your 383 ain't gonna do it, and I know a big block won't either. You need torque to turn the prop at that rpm, not HP which is rated at the crankshaft at wide open throttle (on the engine you are looking at). Torques is gained by displacement, and a 33 cu in displacement is not going to increase the torque enough for you to ever see a 5 mph increase at 3400 rpm, let alone keep the same MPG. That will increase as well.
You might try doing some MPG calculations at 3400 rpm with your present engine then raise it up to 4200 rpm and do the calculations again. You may find better MPG at 4200 than 3400 because you are covering more miles in that same amount of time.
 

peejcj8

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Re: 383 volvo upgrade?

Hey thanks for all the repies!

I do not know the age of the motor I have so I usually run at 3400 max just to take it easy on it.

I know I get about the same or better MPG up til 4000 or so, but was afraid to push the motor. I was thinking about maybe being more aggressive when I get a newer motor, but I also thought that having more power in the motor might help me also.

I have taken my boat out more than 80 miles offshore, just wanting to get there in less than 4 hours.
 

Fun Times

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Re: 383 volvo upgrade?

Hi guys, I seen some other guys talking about engine dynos someplace eles and thought this was a interesting part of the discussion, So I thought I would share this with you guys, I'm sure most of you true engine guys will know about this, But I thought I would just throw it out there for all to see.:)

Quote:
Originally Posted by imco offshore
i have a dyno question...is it so??? torque = hp @ 5200 RPM.S ON ALL ENGINES
-------------------------------------------------------------------
[Answer]
Torque x rpm divided by 5252 = horsepower
it doesn't matter what the engine is that's just how it's measured. Horsepower is the result of torque and rpm..

P= W/t=(m x a)/t

P=Power
W=work
m=mass
a= a-c-c-e-l-e-r-a-t-i-o-n
t=time
 

bruceb58

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Re: 383 volvo upgrade?

Hmm, you are talking about a 25% - 30% gain in HP. Seems a lot to ask out of a prop swap. Just saying...
What is the peak torque increase and at what RPM? Not going to do him much good if the peak torque comes in at an RPM higher than what it will take to get him on plane? Like I said before, at most he is going to go up one size in props. That would not require a gear change.
 

bruceb58

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Re: 383 volvo upgrade?

Hi guys, I seen some other guys talking about engine dynos someplace eles and thought this was a interesting part of the discussion, So I thought I would share this with you guys, I'm sure most of you true engine guys will know about this, But I thought I would just throw it out there for all to see.:)

Quote:
Originally Posted by imco offshore
i have a dyno question...is it so??? torque = hp @ 5200 RPM.S ON ALL ENGINES
Not sure where you got that quote but it is not true. True that hp is a function of torque and RPM but peak torque can occur at much lower RPM than 5200.
 

Maclin

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Re: 383 volvo upgrade?

The quote "torque = hp @ 5200 RPM.S ON ALL ENGINES " is true, and at the same time it does not mean peak occurs there. All engines HP curve and Torque curve graph lines will intersect at 5,200rpm.
 

erikgreen

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Re: 383 volvo upgrade?

The quote "torque = hp @ 5200 RPM.S ON ALL ENGINES " is true, and at the same time it does not mean peak occurs there. All engines HP curve and Torque curve graph lines will intersect at 5,200rpm.

Um... I'm pretty sure that's not entirely correct :)

Example:
http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/Technical/images/97nsxpowercurve.gif

You're right that many auto engine torque/hp graphs are that way, but not all of 'em, and not all marine engines either. FYI it's not some kind of universal engine law that they intersect there, it's due to the desired power range of those engines which are made to be coupled to auto transmissions driving auto wheels.

Marine engine graphs are similar in a lot of ways because they're marinized auto engines that run gas... diesels and larger engines are very different.

Aircraft engines that aren't based on car engines are really, really different.

DonS said:
Let me see if I have this right. You want to gain 5-10 MPH, while still at 3400 rpm, and keep the same MPG.

I think the only way you get to keep the same MPG is if you drop a significant amount of weight off the boat.

Basically to go faster you need more displacement, more displacement equals more fuel burned. A 383 burns more at the speed you care about than a 350, but it burns less than a 450.

The power you need doesn't come from a bigger number on the engine, it comes from more fuel and air filling the extra displacement to generate power.

If you want more speed without spending more fuel, you need less weight or a different hull shape.

Erik
 

180shabah

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Re: 383 volvo upgrade?

A couple people have tried to steer this back into reality.

Adding more peak power (and probably more power everywhere) will not change your fuel consumption at a give speed. After you replace the engine and regear/reprop to compensate for the added power your RPM/speed graph will change.

Right now you are running 22kts at 3400RPM. Your new engine might do that speed at 2900RPM burning the same amount of fuel. However, spin up to the same 3400RPM and you might be traveling at 26kts, and you will use more fuel. The faster you go, the more power that is required. At what RPM your engine is spinning to produce that amount of power, for the most part doesn't matter on the fuel economy part of the equation.
 

Reo Baird

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Re: 383 volvo upgrade?

Um... I'm pretty sure that's not entirely correct :)

Example:
http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/Technical/images/97nsxpowercurve.gif

You're right that many auto engine torque/hp graphs are that way, but not all of 'em, and not all marine engines either. FYI it's not some kind of universal engine law that they intersect there, it's due to the desired power range of those engines which are made to be coupled to auto transmissions driving auto wheels.
<snip>

Actually it is a universal engine law that states they intersect there.

Horsepower is a function of torque. It is defined as "HP = (Torque * RPM)/5252". Thus, from looking at this equation, you can clearly see that whenever RPM = 5252, HP = Torque.

The reason it is not apparent in that graph you posted above, is because the torque and horsepower scales are not the same. If you were to rescale the graph with both torque and hp on the same scale you would notice that the two number do, indeed, intersect at 5252.


Just because the numbers intersect at this number does not mean this is peak torque. It simply means that before 5252rpm, torque will be less than horsepower, and after 5252rpm, horsepower will be greater than torque.


Also, as you can see from the above formula, horsepower is simply torque with a time factor added in (rpm), thus horsepower is a much more useful number at determining engine output.

For example, lets say you have an engine that creates an even 100ft/lb of torque across its entire RPM range (lets say 0-5000). On this engine, horsepower (and thus the power output of the engine) would increase in a linear rate proportional to RPM.

Many people love to argue that "torque is the real number" etc. etc. as if the two are separate things. Horsepower is just torque multiplied by the number of times per minute it is applied. Torque is instantaneous force, and without knowing the rpm it is applied at, it is a completely useless number. 1000ft/lb of torque at 1rpm won't move your boat very far at all, and only represents .19hp. The same torque at 2000rpm, however, represents 380hp, a very healthy power level.

Horsepower = for figuring out how much power you have at any given rpm
Torque = instantaneous force. Generally you want to watch torque when optimizing an engine on a dyno.

now, on topic:


peejcj8, I am planning also on upgrading to 383s (money permitting) on my 32' bayliner conquest this winter. It is currently powered by 260hp volvos, like your boat.

The important thing is your target cruising rpm, and your current engine's power output at this rpm, vs the power output of whatever 383 setup you are contemplating.

dyno comparisons of various 383 setups will provide very valuable as far as optimizing your power and fuel economy, as you will want to pick a setup that emphasizes torque at the correct RPM for your boat. You want to pick a setup (cam and heads are paramount) that will give you a nice fat torque curve from 1500 through 4000rpm (what happens after that doesnt matter).

My advice is to search various hot rod forums or whatever else for dyno graphs and attached spec sheets, and then when you find something with a nice looking dyno graph, try and replicate the setup head and cams wise.

I wish i could give you more specific advice, and i really have no idea on what effect the extra hp will have on your mph/mpg, as i am fairly new to marine stuff myself. My usual expertise is in high output (5+ hp per cu.in) small turbocharged gas engines and drift racing cars.
 
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