Think I got the shaft on a rude and merc

Ran across a man on craigslist with a couple of outboards for sale. First was supposed to be a 1983 Evinrude 25hp, supposed to be titled and run. Second was a supposed to be a late 70's early 80's 9.8 merc which he knew nothing about running condition and could only provide bill of sale. Talked to him on the phone and he suggested meeting me a little closer (10 miles). This being a 120 mile round trip I decided that would be fine. After meeting him, I checked to see that both outboard were not locked up, lower units shifted as they should. The evinrude had part of the skeg and part of the cavitation plate broken but figuring I could get a used housing and swap the gears into it for $50.00 or less I decided that wouldn't keep me from buying them. Gentleman seemed to be nice and told me what he knew about them (or so I thought). He did seem to be hurried a little and that made me suspicious. I questioned the year of the evinrude because it had a cowl from an early-mid 70's model motor on it. He assured me that it was an 1983 model motor and being the dummy that I am I didn't check the title numbers with the motor numbers. He flashed a title for the one motor and a bill of sale for the other. Not giving it much thought I inspected the motors a little more then handed him the cash which was $185.00. He gave me the title and bill of sale and I glanced at the back to make sure it had all the information and signature of seller. Then I loaded the motors and we departed. It wasn't until 30 miles down the road that I started thinking about the evinrude again and why it had an older cowl. Then I gave the title a closer look and all I could think was how in the world could I be so dumb. The title was infact to an 83 but it was a Johnson. I thought for sure I'd been snookered. Got home and ran the numbers and it came back as a 1977 Evinrude as I suspected. Now I have a motor with a title that does not match, I have no idea where the guy lives, not real sure if this was even his correct name on the title and bill of sale, and have tried emailing him all afternoon and haven't got a response. This was an older man, driving a nice newer, ford extended cab and appeared to be fairly well off in the financial department. I know, I know I should've paid much closer attention to the title and checked the numbers before I did anything else but unfortunately I didn't. Now I'm faced with a choice, do I chalk it up as a loss for my own stupidity? I call it a loss because a motor in Missouri must be titled to register it. Regardless I feel that I should take them both to the sheriffs department and make sure that they are not stolen motors that belong to someone else. They are not in that great of shape physically so I can't imagine they were on a boat, they appear to have been in a barn or shed for many years. If he had nothing to hide and didn't know about the title snafu then why would he not email me back? Has anybody else had a problem like this or was everyone else smart enough to check the numbers before they departed rather than after?

Re: Think I got the shaft on a rude and merc

Can understand you wanting to be honest but I would not get the law involved. Maby the motor was stolen when he received it and did not know. You have the paperwork, whats the chances any authority checking the nbrs.? FRED

Re: Think I got the shaft on a rude and merc

I really don't want the law involved either but this guy is acting shady not returning an email and such. The motor was bought to be cleaned up, put into good running order and then sold. Now it cannot be registered in Missouri without a title. Also if this motor did belong to someone else and was stolen I would want them to have it back. I don't and never will fool with stolen merchandise. Yes the chances of it being stolen, or ever having the numbers run are slim but it's the principal behind how it all came about that concerns me.

Re: Think I got the shaft on a rude and merc

Possible that what was originally an '83 Johnny had the powerhead (and cowl) and/or the transom clamp replaced by same from a '77 'Rude, making it a '77 frankenRude.

When those kind of outboards are created by assembling compatible parts that don't have compatible make or year models the title paperwork from any one or part is used for the "new" engine without correction.

Sounds like the old guy cheated you, but it may be a recoverable situation. Explain to the state guys and see if you can get a corrected title issued.

Re: Think I got the shaft on a rude and merc

Even if you can't get the answers you want, for $185 you ought to be able to part them out and get back your investment......I mean, $185 to me, for 2 engines, sounds like a deal.

My 2c

Mark

Re: Think I got the shaft on a rude and merc

TexasMark, you are right in that aspect. I was hoping to keep this one whole however. Anyway, I suppose it's just not meant to be. Only other option is if it's not a "hot" motor I can refurb and keep it for my own personal use. I really didn't consider $185.00 a deal for the tow of them. I buy alot of motors off craigslist and a local classified site and you wouldn't believe some of the deals I've stumbled on in the last couple of years. A Mark58 for 20 bucks? Powerhead locked up of course but the usable parts that I took off that motor would have cost me several hundred dollars if I had to buy them. I generally will not buy a motor if it's more than $75.00 unless it's in running condition and titled. I guess I should get off my soapbox about this motor since I have gotten so many great deals in the past but it's just irritating everytime you educate yourself on how to be a real dummy as I have done on this deal. Guess you learn from your mistakes and from now on, checking everything on the title will be a number one priority as it should've been on this deal. Oh well I'll blame that moment of stupidity on being young and green. JB I wish you were right but the powerhead and entire transom, center section and the works are all original paint in the evinrude blue color. Guess I'll keep it for my own. Thanks guys you know what they say, "You learn from Experience, most of them being bad".

Re: Think I got the shaft on a rude and merc

Texasmark said:

Even if you can't get the answers you want, for $185 you ought to be able to part them out and get back your investment......I mean, $185 to me, for 2 engines, sounds like a deal.

My 2c

Mark

Click to expand...

I agree. I would gladly pay $185 for the evinrude in good shape.

Re: Think I got the shaft on a rude and merc

I don't know about Missouri, but around here selling a vehicle without a valid title will land you in jail. A visit from the sheriff may change his attitude.

Re: Think I got the shaft on a rude and merc

In Texas you have to be over a 10 hp engine before a title is required. There is a length limit on the boat (10-12' I think) also before titling is required. But when you put a motor on a boat you need to register the boat, not title it, register it....the numbers on the side with the state sticker you have to renew every two years, and that applies to trolling motor powered boats, like the little 2 man 8 footers you use in ponds too....course this is a public water usage requirement and on private property it is not required. State gets their game and fish operating fees that way.

And on your deals, whadda deal. Can't believe those prices. On getting screwed, I think we all have that feeling, regardless, like you said, of how many good deals you got.

Mark

Re: Think I got the shaft on a rude and merc

Maybe the guy has yet to look at his emails.
Maybe the guy has several outboards and he mistakenly grabbed the wrong title.
Maybe give the guy a week to respond to your email before declaring him to be ignoring you.
I guess you are using the 9.8 for parts since you bought that without title?

Re: Think I got the shaft on a rude and merc

I think your instincts are good on this one - the guy is probably a rat. First, the fact that he suggested the meet 10 miles away from his home says a lot. Why offer that? Ten miles isn't worth much on a 120 mile RT. To me the answer is simple and I think we all know what it is.

Next up is paperwork that doesn't match. This sort of thing goes on all of the time and its common on Craigslist in particular. I ran into a similar situation recently - I was looking at a couple of boats, one of which is a clone of a Boston Whaler. The problem with the Whaler clone is that the guy is telling me that it is a "Sea Sport" and while there was such a manufacturer, I can find nothing on boats made by this company that look anything like any Boston Whaler, never mind the specific model involved. Further, the HIN digits look like they were not done at "the factory" - they are irregular and crooked. I'm not even saying that the current seller knows that there is a problem in this regard, but my guess is that it is a stolen boat from some point in its life.

The boat that I just described has a current registration, so I could probably get away with buying it and using it. You could probably get away with parting out the motor that you have, as well. The problem in both cases is the possibility of getting into a "receipt of stolen goods" situation. What's the probability of that? Who knows, but I know that "the odds" are not something that I want to test. I also feel as you do - if there is any chance of the boat I looked at being stolen, I want no part of someone else's misery.

I think your seller may have made a mistake in one and possibly two factors, however. First, you have his phone number and so does Craigslist, because you have to give them a phone number to list a sale there. While the seller could have a "pay as you go" cell phone, which does not require an account (hence, not traceable), he might have been dumb enough to use a standard cell phone. Second, you have to have an email based account with Craigslist to sell items there and even if the email account has phony info, it can still be traced via the guy's ISP and his IP address. Even if he used a proxy server, which he probably did not, the cops can still get his info from them, under a court order.

I would pay a visit to the local Sheriif to see what he thinks. If nothing else, it gets you off the hook in regard to possible receipt of stolen goods. You might end up being out the $185, but considering that's worth about 45 minutes of lawyer time, should the stolen goods thing be a factor, it might be the best 185 bucks you ever "spent."



???

Re: Think I got the shaft on a rude and merc

Well Jeeper I'd like to be able to give him the benefit of the doubt. However in all our previous correspondence through email he would answer very quickly. I do have a cell phone number that appearantly is in service however when I get to the voice mail it is the generic unavailable please leave a message answering system therefore it does not give the name. Calls have gone unanswered and unreturned. About the multiple motors and giving the wrong title by accident. When I think back on the conversation that took place when I met him. He explained that he had inherited one motor from his father and the other was given to him by an uncle many years before and that he had no use for either motor. When I first learned of the motors for sale and spoke with him, I asked if he had any other motors that he would want to sell and he replied with no these were the only 2 that he had. When I inquired about why the mercury had no title he explained that his uncle had used the motor on a private lake and never had a title for it. I really didn't believe he knew a whole lot about about outboards but I am now thinking I'm wrong. He said the Evinrude ran and I had no reason not to believe him. After inspecting the motors a little closer in the shop last night I am more disappointed than I was yesterday. The evinrude lower unit that I thought I could just replace the housing on appears to have internal problems. When I turned the powerhead over the prop appeared to turn as it should . However when turning the prop to try and turn the powerhead it just slips and sounds like teeth are missing off of a gear, regardless of forward or reverse, and occasionally it binds up and has to be worked back and forth a little to free it up. Yep I got took. Maybe the guy knew exactly what he had and buffaloed me. If he knew outboards he would know that the title was to a 83 Johnson and the motor was a 77 Evinrude on account of the color and tag numbers. If he didn't know outboards you would think the fact that the cowl said Evinrude across it and a title that says Johnson would cause him to raise an eyebrow and check a little closer. Either way I was foolish for not checking the title closer for myself. I have been polite in my emails and messages in hopes that this was just a misunderstanding and didn't want to take any further action until I spoke with him. However if I don't get a return email or phone call then I will take the motors to the sheriff just to make sure that they are not someone elses property. If they are not I will bring them home and decide what to do with the evinrude. If they do belong to someone else. Then I suppose I will be turning the motors over to the sheriff along with all the info I have of this person, then I'll cut my losses and go on and just be happy that I've washed my hands of unknowingly receiving someone elses property. The scary part is what if I had not caught this and had advertised this motor for sale on craigslist after I cleaned it up and got it in good running condition. Then an individual had come to look at the motor knowing it could be theirs that was stolen and brought the title that goes to the motor? I'd have alot of explaining to do and don't want to be in that predicament. Thanks for the comments guys. I understand in this world its a "Buyer Beware" atmosphere and I failed on my part of the thorough inspection so I will accept that I got took and go on, but I also have to be safe and know that these motors were his to sell or at least in the eyes of the law they were not someone elses motors.

Re: Think I got the shaft on a rude and merc

DAVE, get over it. And dont get the law involved. Once bought a used car from a pontiac dealer. Found out about 3 years later the nbrs. on the car and nbrs. on the title did not match. Dealer that had sold the car new and the dealer that sold me the car did not want to know a thing about it. Was not worth the effort after my hassle with the state police who also did not want to get involved.
Just like buying a gun from a private party, assume it is stolen. Never resell it to someone who has to report the transaction ( gun dealer-pawn shop). If you buy it in the tavern parking lot, it is stolen no matter what story the seller gives you. regards FRED

Re: Think I got the shaft on a rude and merc

When I bought my boat the trailer vin did not match the registration. Fortunately for me the seller really was an honest guy who had no idea what happened. It was a pain in the rear getting the registration straight however. We had to write statements describing all of the details of the transaction. it took a couple months to get the trailer legal. Even at that I think the only reason they let me register the trailer was because they could not contact the real owner (guy they had on record for that vin). Basically they shouldn't have let me register the trailer but because me and the seller were forthcoming and accessible they made an exception.

Re: Think I got the shaft on a rude and merc

If you are going to sell or part out the 9.8 pm me !!!

Re: Think I got the shaft on a rude and merc

Call the guy's cell from a different phone than you used when you first contacted him. He may recognize your number & not answer cuz he knows he screwed you up. I'm a salesman & if a potential customer won't answer or return calls I call from my personal cell & they usually answer cuz they don't recognize the number. Maybe he will tell you what was done to the title so it's easier for you to straighten it out.

Re: Think I got the shaft on a rude and merc

don't beat your self up over $185 and two old outboards. but ilike Jay's advice that you mention it ot he authorities and see wht they say; if they do nothing you will feel better. You can even keep a record of the conversation in case you have to prove later that you gave it a shot.

Re: Think I got the shaft on a rude and merc

Tough call, how are titles matched up to a motor, here in Canada that stuff doesn't matter, I've got 5 motors in the garage with no titles??? Titles are for the boat, not the motors here.