What effect will E-15 ethanol have on outboards

I am sure that by now most,if not all,of you have heard that the EPA may give the green light to E-15 ethanol blended fuels in the very near future.
I am not in favor of this happening since I have a much older outboard(an
18 HP Fastwin Evinrude made in 1964). E-10 alone is enough to concern me.
Has any testing been done to see what effects it will have or not? Or is this
just another bunch of enviromentalist political bull crap that they are trying
to shove down our throats? I use a good quality gasoline in my boat along with fuel stabilizer,but will that be enough to combat the posible problems
that E-15 blended fuels may cause in the future? How will it effect my plastic 6.6 gallon fuel tank? How will it effect the engine in my truck? It's not a flex fuel engine at all,...it's a 2003 Chevy 1500 with the Vortec 4800 V8.

Re: What effect will E-15 ethanol have on outboards

Depending on who you talk to it may be "the end of the world as we know it" or you may not have an issue. If you are already using E10 and are not having an issue, you have probably already changed fuel lines and rebuilt the fuel pump and carb with ethanol tolerant components. The engine itself could care less about the fuel. Your truck probably will not suffer any ill effects either except for a slight drop in fuel economy. The up side is the knock sensor will permit a tad more timing advance since ethanol has a higher octane rating than regular fuel. My Impala is designed to run on regular, E10 or E85 so the engine itself could care less which it is consuming. It is the fuel system components that are switched to stainless and a better grade of hoses and gasket material to avoid any corrosion issues to create an ethanol tolerant engine. Your plastic fuel tank will not be bothered. It is the resins used in fiberglass tanks that are the issue. In coastal areas or areas of extremely high humidity, water absorption seems to pose some problems. It is recommended that a water separating fuel filter be installed especially if your boat has a very large fuel tank. Those small tanks don't pose much of a problem if treated with Stabil or Sea Foam as the fuel gets used before water becomes an issue.

Re: What effect will E-15 ethanol have on outboards

other than voiding the warrenty on my 2008 ford ranger,my F150 yamaha and my 175 E-TEC and every other marine gasoline engine still covered by warrenty, not much.
no there has been NO studies that the EPA recognizes on the effects of marine equipment, just to the emissions.
fixed jet carbed motors will have even more issues as the already very lean mix is gonna get even leaner unless its rejetted.
crank seals and other rubber parts that are already suffering the E 10 effects will simply dissolve faster.
if they go to e15 I will sell all my boats and quit for a bit.
maybe move to Venezeula and retire at my wifes apt.
then again cant with the nutter in charge there either.
fixed jet motors that are already running on the ragged edge of lean,due to emission standards since 1998, will run even leaner and we will see more posts about random piston failures.

Re: What effect will E-15 ethanol have on outboards

I would be happy to be a test bed. After all, our government knows what's best for us don't they? Can't be any worse than the 70's when the geniuses (or is it genii) in California mandated emission reduction by plugging the vacuum line to the advance mechanism on older cars. That and a sticker on the windshield to not drive over 60 mph supposedly took care of that problem. Perhaps the motors running E15 will need to be limited to 3000 rpm. Geez I'm a cynical old phart huh! My disagreement with ethanol in any form is not so much over "will it work" but more with the politics of it solving an energy crisis. Geez, this stuff costs more to produce, transport, store, and buy (in most areas of the country). It is dirt cheap (comparatively) here in the Minnesota.

Re: What effect will E-15 ethanol have on outboards

Silvertip said:

I would be happy to be a test bed. After all, our government knows what's best for us don't they? Can't be any worse than the 70's when the geniuses (or is it genii) in California mandated emission reduction by plugging the vacuum line to the advance mechanism on older cars. That and a sticker on the windshield to not drive over 60 mph supposedly took care of that problem. Perhaps the motors running E15 will need to be limited to 3000 rpm. Geez I'm a cynical old phart huh! My disagreement with ethanol in any form is not so much over "will it work" but more with the politics of it solving an energy crisis. Geez, this stuff costs more to produce, transport, store, and buy (in most areas of the country). It is dirt cheap (comparatively) here in the Minnesota.

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Not to get a political diatribe started over this ethanol issue,but our gov't
does not know crap from apple butter about knowing what is best for us.
They can't possibly know it when they have this country so far in debt in
because of their wreckless spending. Guess I'll just have to stock up on
fuel stabilizer to contend with the ethanol levels especially if I go to a four stroke outboard in the 15 HP to 20 HP range on my next boat!

Re: What effect will E-15 ethanol have on outboards

I said that "tongue in cheek"! But I'm also one who has used ethanol blended fuel since 1997 and the only issue I've ever had was the coating on the inside of a Chrysler car was attacked by the ethanol. Rebuilt the carb and no more problem. Never an issue with my boats.

Re: What effect will E-15 ethanol have on outboards

here is my take on it, especially older motors. http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=330129

Re: What effect will E-15 ethanol have on outboards

OLD motors.
What current boat engine or automotive engine manufacturers are not building them to run on E-10 or E-15?
For the past what? ten years?
If there are any that can not function properly on E-10 or E-15 then I would dump that brand and never buy that brand because it tells me their engineers are too stupid to figure it out.
Along with too stupid to figure out other stuff too.
Or blame it on the corporate bean counters who do not want to spend the money to bring their products into the 21st century.

BTW, marine use fuel is still exempt from the requirement of ethanol E-10 or E-15.
And supposedly will still be after 01-01-2011 when all road gas will be mandated to contain 10% ethanol.

Re: What effect will E-15 ethanol have on outboards

There will be alot of money to be made selling new seals to poeple like us. I'm not shure but i bet any new seals you by will be just fine in the wisky.

Re: What effect will E-15 ethanol have on outboards

when i say older, i mean late 80's and older. their hoses were not alcohol resistant.

Re: What effect will E-15 ethanol have on outboards

The current industry concern is about the increased alcohol content washing/drying out the cylinder walls on 2-stroke engines.

Re: What effect will E-15 ethanol have on outboards

What about oil are there 2stroke oils that can overcome the drying affect of the alcohol. Just a thought

Re: What effect will E-15 ethanol have on outboards

But what is two-stroke oil in the gas there for?
Maybe an ounce more oil per five gallons will offset the "washing" effects.

Maybe someone should invent an ethanol scrubber that will separate the ethanol from gasoline.

Re: What effect will E-15 ethanol have on outboards

in our area only aircraft fuels are exempt from E fuels.
its the only legal oxygenate left.
that and as Ethanol is mixed at the distribution terminal they arent going to send a seperate tanker just for the average marinas fuel tanks.
here is the problem, in order to maintain a posted octane rating you have to cut the base gasolines octane as te addition of ethanol will increase the octane rating.
scrub the ethanol OR allow it to phase seperate and your fuel octane is way below the engines requirements.
most,not all,modern EFI engines have a knock detect that can adjust,somewhat,to lowered octane fuels.
I bought my 08 ford ranger in april of 08 3 months before my area saw ethanol.
gas milige averaged about 19MPG and the idle was dead smooth.
by july of 08 gas milage averaged 17,and still does, and the idle is decidedly rougher.
truck now has 26K miles on it.
there is not,repeat not, a marine engine avalible to the US market that is compatible with E15 fuels,not a volvo,not a mercruiser and none of the outboards nor my ford ranger.
in fact look carefully at your warrenty statements or look them up online.
this E-15 crap isnt coming from our goverment. its coming via a request by a consortorium of 52 ethanol producers,most of which recieve federal subsidies for ethanol production and are still going bankrupt.
in an effort to boost ethanol sales they wish to force e-15 then an e 20 to 25.
its coming just watch.
its all about the corperate dollar and nothing about oil or the environment.

look VERY VERY carefully at any rubber you purchase, none is labeled ethanol PROOF simply resistant, kinda like a water resistant watch.
does that mean you can sweat with that watch or swim with it?
dunno about the rest of the US but I have made about 15K usd more this year due to the effects of E-10 and to the detriment of my customers.

its taken out both my F150 and my E-TEC 175 once each so far.
so now,for the next several years,its a wait and see game thats gonna cost the american consumer a LOT of money.
not only in vehicle and equipment repair costs but new technology and not to mention increased food costs at the grocery store.
corn is simply a stupid use to make e fuels.

Re: What effect will E-15 ethanol have on outboards

Make no mistake about it,...I am all for our country becoming energy independent,...meaning being less dependent on foreign oil and fuel
sources,...but why use corn since it is going to end up screwing up our outboards,trucks and cars that are not flex fuel compatible or ethanol
compatible? Well,if I am going to continue in boating(which I will with a
small 14 ft. aluminum row job and a small 10 to 15 HP outboard),than I
had better stock up the marine formula of Sta-Bil to eliminate any of the
potential problems that the increased level of ethanol may possibly cause.
That,or the outboard manufacturers best be getting on the ball and make
their motrors compatible with E-10,15,or 20,etc. I just recently traded vehicles,so I can't do it again for at least another five years! What would happen if they used soy beans as a fuel source instead? Don't they use
that as a source for biodiesel? If so,than why not use that as an alternative
fuel source for our outboards,tow vehicles,RVs,etc,too? Very few of the marinas here use that ValveTech marine grade fuel.