Antenna Hidden

amanphoto

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jun 21, 2008
Messages
336
I want to install a marine VHF Radio into my Wellcraft boat. I don't want that huge white antenna sticking up and ruin the sleek look of my boat. Can it be hidden somewhere else? For an example, is there a way to turn my grab rail that runs around my bow into an antenna?
 

windsors03cobra

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Messages
1,191
Re: Antenna Hidden

Pretty sure an antenna is your only option, a rub rail or bow rail sure is not.
Have you seen the low profile stainless steel whip aerials ? Virtually invisible from a few yards.

You can buy rails mounts to avoid drilling your glass.
 

iBrent

Seaman
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
58
Re: Antenna Hidden

A buddy of mine stuffed his antenna underneath the bow seats of his 19' bowrider. This won't give you the full range (maybe 1 or 2 miles) but it's not hard mounted either. In case of emergency he pulls it out and holds it in his hand.
 

Knightgang

Lieutenant
Joined
Oct 6, 2003
Messages
1,428
Re: Antenna Hidden

These radios work by Line of Sight. It the antenna is not up to catch the radio band waves or to broadcast out, there will not be very much range. You could do like the previos posted said and stick it under a gunnel, then if you really need to rach out, pull it and mount it upright. You might also look at trying to find on maybe 3-4 feet tall, instead of 8'. That may not distract from the look very much...
 

amanphoto

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jun 21, 2008
Messages
336
Re: Antenna Hidden

My wife doesn't like the way the antennas look. I have a hand held radio, but I can't hear it all the time and have to keep it charged. I don't go far off shore. Maybe I can tuck an antenna under gunnel of the boat.
 

Knightgang

Lieutenant
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Oct 6, 2003
Messages
1,428
Re: Antenna Hidden

My wife doesn't like the way the antennas look. I have a hand held radio, but I can't hear it all the time and have to keep it charged. I don't go far off shore. Maybe I can tuck an antenna under gunnel of the boat.

SHe will like it alot if something happens and that is the ony way to contact help 10 miles away.
Under the gunnel is better than nothing. At least it will be there so you can stand it up if needed...
 

ziggy

Admiral
Joined
Jun 30, 2004
Messages
7,473
Re: Antenna Hidden

I don't want that huge white antenna sticking up and ruin the sleek look of my boat. Can it be hidden somewhere else?
yes, they can be folded down when you don't want it up... it's a matter of stratigic location of your antenna as to how it works out for you.

IMG_3322.jpg

ya can't even see that i got an antenna in this pic. see the red sticker on my lower port corner of my windshield. just in ft. of that attached to my deck is the antenna base, ya can just barely see it.
IMG_1683.jpg
a slightly better pic of it down. mounted right on the port gunnel by the windshield.

MissouriRiver09_16_07_28.jpg

with it up...

agree with others. ya really want a 8' antenna if ya want your vhf to work as well as possible for range...
how it will work out on your boat is up to your imagination + boat style... good luck..
 

amanphoto

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jun 21, 2008
Messages
336
Re: Antenna Hidden

This is my boat.
 

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bruceb58

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
30,454
Re: Antenna Hidden

Put a nice long antenna on it and if she complains, get a new one...

...your choice on what "new one" means. :)
 

Lyle29464

Lieutenant
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
1,261
Re: Antenna Hidden

It is a safety device. Mine is a full wave on top of an 8 foot extension. Before This I had mine on top of a sail boat mast. I have helped people that no one else could hear and I like knowing If I need help they will hear me.
 

Splat

Lieutenant
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
1,366
Re: Antenna Hidden

A buddy of mine stuffed his antenna underneath the bow seats of his 19' bowrider. This won't give you the full range (maybe 1 or 2 miles) but it's not hard mounted either. In case of emergency he pulls it out and holds it in his hand.

OMG!!!! Ever hear or ERP?

This is not good practice. Although it's not totally agreed science the effect RF has on the body< especially 5 watts, with the radiator in your hand, I'll leave you with this,

if you took a fluorescent light bulb and held it to the antenna while you keyed it up, the antenna sends out enough energy to light it up.

your microwave, granted it's higher frequency, and highly uni-directional but still

A tower worker several years ago at my work while servicing some hardware never checked to makesure all transmitters on that tower were powered down upon climbing. not only was he directly in the path of radiation, he sat down the arm that hold a live antenna. Transmitting at 469mhz, at 50watts he suffered major organ damage and burns.

Bill
 

Knightgang

Lieutenant
Joined
Oct 6, 2003
Messages
1,428
Re: Antenna Hidden

I was going to say somehting about holding an antenna i your hand, but I was not sure of the effect of the power output on the VHF marine radios.

I know i the military you do not want to hold an antenna on a military radio while it transmits. Don't have a first hand account, but have heard stories of people getting the ********* zapped out of them by the power of the radio transmission. of course on a vehicle, we run the radios on power amps to boost to higher ranges...
 

bassboattech

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
46
Re: Antenna Hidden

i would mount it like ziggy did his....that boat it so insanely cool.
 

bruceb58

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
30,454
Re: Antenna Hidden

First of all, they transmit at 25 watts. Second, with the antenna up is when you would probably have the most radiation near your head. If you actually mounted the darn thing under the gunwale(not sure why you would do that) it wold actually be safer.
 

bruceb58

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
30,454
Re: Antenna Hidden

Transmitting at 469mhz, at 50watts he suffered major organ damage and burns.

Bill
There is no way he suffered major organ damage from 50W. That's just not possible. It had to be way higher power than that.
 

jhebert

Ensign
Joined
Jul 24, 2005
Messages
902
Re: Antenna Hidden

...is there a way to turn my grab rail that runs around my bow into an antenna?

There is a way to turn a structure like the bow railing on your boat into an antenna that could accept input from a VHF Marine Band radio, but there are several problems.

The greatest problem is engineering a method of turning the grab rail into an antenna. This certainly could be done, but it is by no means trivial and would require some expertise and design. Since you are asking if it could be done at all, I infer that you lack the expertise and knowledge to accomplish it yourself, and you would have to hire someone to design such an antenna for you. This would probably be far more costly than any reasonable person would typically invest in such a project.

An additional problem is that by FCC regulation the signal transmitted from all stations in the VHF Marine Band radio service is to be vertically polarized. It may be very difficult to obtain a vertically polarized radiation from your bow railing due to its predominantly horizontal orientation.

Finally, assuming you could overcome these two problems and succeeded in designing and implementing an effective antenna with vertically polarized radiation from your boat's bow railing, you would have the very significant problem of preventing radio frequency currents from causing harm to persons who grabbed the bow railing while you were transmitting.
 

Splat

Lieutenant
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
1,366
Re: Antenna Hidden

My bad, marine VHF most radios tx at 25watts when on full power.

The guy in my story was subjected to 50watts as that's what our repeater system puts out on that particular antenna.
He immediately complained of minor burn like redness and discomfort on his back and right side. Later that year he was forced to have a kidney removed due to failure. Whether it was in direct relation to the rf exposure or not, is not totally known. Its an awful coincidence tho.

Mounting the antenna under a gunnel may make It safer in that its farther from your head, however the plane on which the antenna tx and rx will now be vertical instead of horizontal, thus making it drastically less effective. This would be worse with the higher the db of gain antenna. Also the SWR may be higher depending on the surrounding materials.

Bill
 

bruceb58

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
30,454
Re: Antenna Hidden

What is the frequency of the transmission? I really doubt that is what caused his problem. With an omnidirectional antenna, the power density has to be very small.
 

radioguy

Cadet
Joined
Sep 8, 2009
Messages
13
Re: Antenna Hidden

I want to install a marine VHF Radio into my Wellcraft boat. I don't want that huge white antenna sticking up and ruin the sleek look of my boat. Can it be hidden somewhere else? For an example, is there a way to turn my grab rail that runs around my bow into an antenna?
If you go to a land mobile dealer as opposed to a marine dealer he can supply a stainless steel antenna with a variety of mounting options that will give you great range, be inconspicuous & cost 1/4 of the price of a marine antenna. I install a lot of them.
 
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