An Introduction and a Problem

Hello all, my name is Mike and I live in N.E. Oklahoma. I'm new to this website as well as these boards so I wanted to take a moment to introduce myself and maybe at the same time, pick a few brains on a boat I recently fell into.

About a month ago, I found a 16 FT Kingfisher boat with a Johnson 70 on her. I purchased her from a couple in a nearby town, and right off the bat they let me take her on the lake to test her out, and let me get the feel for her.

Considering the boat and motor are as old as they are.... (motor is a 1975) and (boat is a 1972) she ran outstanding. I had my GPS with me on the lake and I had her pushing 40 MPH. We've taken her fishing, tubing, and she's been a real blast. I was told the boat is a Tri-Hull and even in choppy waters she handles and performs outstanding.

But!!!

A problem has arose over the last week of using her. I found out a little late in the game to stay away from Ethanol gasoline as this isn't taken very well in my type of motor. Aside from that, she's been running Ethanol free gas now for the past two weeks.

What I've replaced since I've had her are both gas tanks, the spark plugs, the fuel line with the priming ball, and a little cosmetic work on the boat.

The problem I'm having now is that she seems to have lost her power. She starts great and has a idle very much like a brand new car would have. When I engage her into gear and start to throttle up, I notice she feels a bit rougher and the sound is different from when she was running great before. I've lost any and all top end that this boat had in previous weeks as well. With just me on board, she'll barely make it to 25mph, and even then it seems like she's struggling. I'm more of a car guy, so I liken the problem to a "falling on it's face" issue. It use to be I could really feel the torque when we would take off.....but now she has none.......she has to be babbied to get up to speed.....and even then I feel like we're crawling.

I checked the fuel lines for kinks, cracks, or obstructions. There were none. I checked the fuel filter for debris or a blockage. There was none.
My oil/fuel ratio is still the 50 to 1 and I'm using the same type of oil and amount that the previous owner used to avoid to much change in the running conditions.

I've been given a few "possible" scenarios by fellow boaters but I don't know where to begin...or if they're all just guessing since many of them don't seem to sure of themselves.

I've been told there is a fuel sensor in the lines......and that mine is bad causing the boat to flood itself. I've been told my timing is off and needs to be readjusted. I've been told I'm not firing all of my plugs.....but that I did check and have come to the conclusion that all the plugs are indeed firing.

Bottom line....she starts, idles, and runs great. Until I put her under a load. After I've been running her on the lake for a while.....I'll throttle back to slow her down and if she gets close to neutral, she'll die. She easily starts back up....but that is a recent problem with this "no power" issue.

Does any of this sound familiar folks. I really hate introducing myself to a new board with a motor problem.....but I'm at a loss now gang. I've attached a few pics below of the boat and motor.

I hope someone may have an idea of what I'm dealing with here.


This is what she looked like when I brought her home.


Then did some body work and gave her a new skin.


The paint job is done to match the Jeep that pulls her.

Engine pics are below.









Sorry about the pic overkill guys. I'm kind of a real visual person. The boat went through many cosmetic changes when I got her....but those motor pics were just taken a few min ago.

Hope someone can help.

Peace all.

Mike

Re: An Introduction and a Problem

O.K.
Welcome to iboats. Don't worry we all love to see photos. Looks like you did a great job on the cosmetics. Looks great.
As this is a "new to you" motor I suggest you do the following and post your findings. This is a basic health check of your motor.

Compression check
Spark check
Fuel delivery check (take off the pump to carb hose and crank it into a container) make certain it gives a consistent healthy spurt and does not die off after a few turns of the motor.
Spark plug condition.
Post as many photos as you like.
Just a stupid question though. You are premixing your fuel at 50 to 1 ???

Re: An Introduction and a Problem

If you recently started running E10 fuel then its likely the carbs will need rebuilding, ethanol loosens varnish in the tank and lines. It ends up in the carb jets.
If that is the problem you'll need rebuild kits for ea carb, approx $20 ea.

Also when you do an ignition test, use a $10 spark GAP tester from any auto part store, set the gap to 3/8th inch. It needs to jump that big gap or its too weak when under compression. Check the coils for cracks.

Also try pumping the bulb when it bogs down, could be a weak fuel pump.

If you rebuild carbs, flush the fuel tank out, I used acetone in mine, outboards will actually run on acetone, kinda expensive fuel tho.

Before I ran my engine I washed the tank out and replumbed all new lines, looks you did that.

Re: An Introduction and a Problem

Is that a crack on the top coil? May cause problems under load.

Re: An Introduction and a Problem

Thanks for the tips and information folks. I'm not very certain on how to do some of those tests. (Forgive my ignorance) but I'm coming to the realization that the less stuff I mess with, the less chances I'm going to have making it worse.

Does it matter that this problem started out on the water....and wasn't a gradual worsening thing? Basically, it happened one day while putting around on the lake. So whatever caused it......happened then and there.

And Daviet, you are right....that is a crack in the top coil. That can't be good at all. I'm really weary about ripping apart too many components and then finding myself lost. But I can't imagine replacing that cracked coil is that hard......is it? Well, I guess the first thing is to find a replacement......but if I replace that one......shouldn't I just replace all three?

I guess this is why my father inlaw told me the two happiest times of a boat owners life is when he buys his new boat, and then when he sells it.

I'm going to get to the bottom of this problem.......I had too much fun tubing with this boat with the kids to give up on it this soon. As for now....she's only good for slow cruising and fishing.

Just trying to find the best place to start.

Thanks again for the replies folks.........I'll keep investigating the problem.

Here's a few more pics of the boat after her facelift.....and yes.....that's my Jeep.











Peace all.

Mike

Re: An Introduction and a Problem

Knight,
Get a $6 spark tester and do the test. The spark tester will show a WEAK sprark which is probably what you have. Since your motor idles good I'm thinking a spark problem. The cracked coil you were pointed to is very likely the culprit. It's totally simple to do and you have the 2 other coils to refer to when putting the new one in. They're not that high, either. You could do a spark check with your cheapo tester, and then swap coils to see if the problem follows the coil. Myself, I wouldn't change all the coils, just the bad one. Your other coils don't look all that old and even a new one can go bad out of the blue. (just my opinion) I suspect if you pull the spark plugs after running it a while, your top plug will be more oily than the others, which would also point to weak spark on that cylinder.
Good luck,
JBJ

Re: An Introduction and a Problem

Thanks JBJ. I'll do that and start there testing the spark. Since that cracked coil is sitting there right in my face.....I know it needs to be changed...so that's what I'll do.

Now.....just finding a replacement is the next step. I'm guessing I'm either going to have to order one online...or go consult a marine shop. At any rate...thanks for the tips.

Peace man.

Mike

Re: An Introduction and a Problem

Oh yah...one more quick question.......

Nothing short of taking her back to the lake over and over again......I know the do's and don'ts regarding starting these motors dry. I have one of those contraptions that fit over the water inlets and supply water via a garden hose.

I've started her with full water pressure shooting into the inlets and she sounds great. However....that's not where my problem lies. It's when she engages in gear.

So.....how can I test my repairs? Should I just repeatedly take her back to the lake....or can I throttle her up and down with that device that feeds water into the inlets? Not sure about this one.

Mike

Re: An Introduction and a Problem

Mike,
I forgot to say----I enjoyed your pics. I am actually wanting a 70hp johnson myself for my pontoon boat since they are such good motors (I've heard).
You can get those coils at any BRP dealer locally, possibly at NAPA auto parts, or iboats too. I don't know the part number but someone here will if you need it. If not look it up at laingsoutboards.com and get the sierra part number there. I believe those coils are very, very common and cheap and easy to get.
GOod luck,
JBJ

Re: An Introduction and a Problem

Whatever you do, don't rev it up in gear while on the "muffs" on the water hose. It can have a runaway and throw a rod through the block. When you get the spark tester, if it shows a weak spark and you put the new coil on, or switch the coils and you get a good spark, you'll be pretty sure you solved the problem. Then, you will have to take it to the lake to find out for sure. The professional mechanics have special test props which they use to test for such problems.
Later,
JBJ

Re: An Introduction and a Problem

Thanks again JBJ. I'm all ready attempting to find the replacement via a number or part ID. I think tomorrow I'll do the spark test and go from there. I know that coil can't stay like it is, so even if it doesn't solve my problem, I'll have a wee bit better piece of mind knowing that I'm not arching a spark out of that coil while flying through the water.

I'm really hoping that is the cause of my current dilemma. And just FYI, when I removed the first set of plugs and put these new ones in.....that top plug on the motor was the dirtiest.

If I'm understanding everything I'm being told here.....then it's possible that top coil (in it's current state) isn't delivering a proper spark and the top cylinder isn't performing like it should.....hence the poor performance and week speeds I've been getting. Sounds like a good starting point to me.


One last thing.... I bumped into a guy at the lake this weekend and I think his user name is either curtis__? or cletus__? or something like that. I don't remember for sure. All I know is that he said he lived in Tulsa. He spoke very highly of this site and these forums. I can see now what he was talking about.

Thanks again, I'll let you know how the diagnosing goes.

Mike

Re: An Introduction and a Problem

While that cracked coil might be the problem (and will be sooner or later), I still think the real problem is in clogged carb jets. If I understand your original post, this motor, tank, and lines was recently introduced to ethanol gas. As stated before, this will free up an awful lot of varnish in just about everything and it all winds up in your jets.

If your jets are clogged you are running it lean. If you continue to run it lean, you will very soon be shopping for a new motor.

Do the spark test, and be sure your coil is the issue. Once the coil has been changed, if your boat still does not perform as before rebuild the carbs right away.

There's nothing wrong with running ethanol in an outboard once your fuel system has been cleaned, and your hoses have been switched to ethanol resistant hoses.

Re: An Introduction and a Problem

It's interesting that you mention that. I was looking around in the motor today and noticed some "drips" coming from one or two lines. I don't have "puddles" of gas in the motor....but she's pretty wet in there....and she doesn't take on water while on the lake.

I'd swear that more than just a few of the lines do not appear to be very tight on the motor.....or that the motor uses slightly oversized lines in a few places.

Check out the pic below and look at the line that has the yellow arrow pointing to it:



That line was barely attached.....and when it was.....there were faint signs of a slow drip coming from it. It looks like someone Mickey Moused some of these lines back in with fairly week Zip Ties.

That leads me to this question..... how sensitive is the pressure (fuel related) to the performance of the engine? Could some week connections in my fuel lines be causing this issue?

By the way....the spark test showed good spark on all three plugs.

Mike

Re: An Introduction and a Problem

Air leaks will cause exactly the problem you describe. Hunt down some ethanol-resistant fuel lines and replace them all with the proper size. Use the OMC fuel line zip ties too. They're properly curved to fit snugly all the way around.

Since your spark test showed good spark I think it's time for a thorough cleaning. Time to invest in a real OEM service manual, rebuild the carbs, and go through the whole fuel system.

It'd still recommend replacing the coil, but it looks like that's not your problem . . . yet.

Re: An Introduction and a Problem

Ok, here's the deal. I found out what's causing this problem.

First off, the compression test turned out great. All three cylinders are up to par. All working with excellent compression. The ignition and firing are all doing what they should be as well.

Now before I get to the final issue....I noticed something when I took the boat out on the lake again. I pulled off the cowling and looked at the motor carefully while she was moving slowly through the water. I saw a small stream of gas coming from that cover that's over the carbs.

Took her back home, removed that cover on the motor so I could see the three carbs. Fired her back up with the water muffs and noticed the bottom carb lightly spraying gas out when the others were not. Now....I'm not a big carb guy to begin with so....I had to look twice....but I knew that wasn't right.

Anyway....back to the point......the bottom carb needs to be rebuilt. She still runs.....but with only 2/3 of her motor. I guess I got lucky it wasn't anything worse.

I'll keep updates on the process of her repair....but still want to thank the guys that helped and gave tips. I learned a lot about this motor this week that's for sure.

Peace all.

Mike