Prop question

tscott

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
May 2, 2003
Messages
92
Hi all. Back from a weekend at the lake with my '91 Stratos 290 s/f.'91 200hp Evinrude<br /><br />Boat currently has a SS 4-blade Shooter prop.13.5x23. (came with boat) 52mph at 5400 rpm. WOT.<br /><br />The speed is fine.Not really interested in going much faster.<br />Problem: Takes 4200rpm or better to get out of the hole.(Stern heavy boat)<br />I was able to get experienced slalom skiers on top but had to really play the trim to do it.Once planning the boat launches itself forward. <br />I want to buy a prop that will get the boat on plane with less than 4000rpm without over revving at WOT and won't sacrifice alot of speed.<br /><br />New prop does not have to be a 4-blade. But I have no idea what going from 4-blade to 3-blade does to diameter and pitch so I need advice from the more experienced out there.<br /><br />I'm ready for ideas all<br /><br />Tom<br /> :D
 

rickdb1boat

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jan 23, 2002
Messages
11,195
Re: Prop question

How bout putting a hydrofoil on there for a better hole shot? Should help. Just a thought.
 

walleyehed

Admiral
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Jun 29, 2003
Messages
6,767
Re: Prop question

Small diameter, and high pitch is not the best combo for hole-shot....Thats a top-end set up.<br />4-blade props are USUALLY better hole-shot props, but I'm guessing you've got high rake and double cup. I would suggest a 3-blade 14-1/2 to 15X21 with doulble cup but not as much rake (bow-lifting). RENEGADE (4-blade) offshore would be a good choice because it has lower rake. A 3-blade viper would work in the 21" pitch range as well.<br />It's hard to get the best of both, and many times, requires 2 props......... :)
 

Dhadley

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Feb 4, 2001
Messages
16,978
Re: Prop question

Since you are so short on rpm, try working the set up with the prop you have. Lugging the motor like that will lead to an early demise of the motor too. I'm not surprised you had a hard time getting a skiier up.<br /><br />Got a jackplate?
 

tscott

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
May 2, 2003
Messages
92
Re: Prop question

Hi all. Thanks for the input. <br /><br />I don't have a jackplate and I have already installed a doel-fin. The fin helped tremendously with bow rise but the hole shot was unchanged.<br /><br />The manual says WOT for this motor is 5500-6000 but I read on the forums it's best not to exceed 5600rpm. Is that correct? If so I can only handle another 200rpm which would be 1 degree of pitch down. (with a 4-blade) Don't know what would happen if I drop to a three blade. Just don't want to spend the money on another 4-blade ss prop. I don't pull a skier often but when I do, I want to be able to do so effectively and efficiently.<br /><br />As far as 2 props go, this is the only one I have so it would be like a spare.(Good one at that) And it has the speed.Now I need one for low end power! :D <br /><br />Thanks,<br />Tom
 

Dhadley

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Feb 4, 2001
Messages
16,978
Re: Prop question

With that motor you dont want to set it up at less than 5600 with an average load. <br /><br />Thats a good boat. Well worth the investment of a jackplate. Then you can take full advantage of the 4 blade technology.<br /><br />Good luck!
 

Jdeagro

iboats.com Partner
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Jul 30, 2003
Messages
1,682
Re: Prop question

Here I am again with Dhadley, and Walleyehed;<br /><br />How are you all doing? <br /><br />Guess what, I still disagree with the use of props to change handling problem. That is not to say the engine shold not be propped correctly.<br /><br />The boat is stern heavy - nothing new- back end goes down on take off, front end goes up. Now you have a hill to climb over. Or try to accellerate as fast as possible to minimize the hill. <br /><br />Why not keep the stern from dropping and accellerate level? use the prop to propell! He wants to pull skiers easier. Look at a Master Craft, they are ballanced and take off flat. Why, the engine is in the center of the boat. With the engine on the transom, the boat needs something to create balance. Smart Tabs (trim tabs), create a variable hull design, which compensates for the changing conditions.
 

mattttt25

Commander
Joined
Sep 29, 2002
Messages
2,661
Re: Prop question

dhadley, i'm curious why you tell him he is "so short on rpms", yet he says he turns 5400 and manual states 5500-6000??? seems to me he is pretty close. you told me in another post i was 1000 rpms low when i said i was turning 5200 with a manufacturer recommendation of 5000-5500.<br /><br />what gives?
 

MurdockJr

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
May 14, 2003
Messages
97
Re: Prop question

You always want to run at the upper rpm range with a 2 stroke. 2 strokes do not like to be lugged. :) :)
 

walleyehed

Admiral
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Jun 29, 2003
Messages
6,767
Re: Prop question

Total agreement with dhadley.....keep it in the upper range......also agree with the jack-plate, but I still feel short of buying a new boat, you're gonna need 2 props.......just my opinion. :) :)
 

tscott

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
May 2, 2003
Messages
92
Re: Prop question

Hi guys. Thanks for all the info. I agree I need a second prop. As I said this one has the speed,now I need some power. <br />Everyone I've talked too says 4000rpm to get out of the hole is too much but it takes every bit of that with this boat. <br />Probably will get a second prop with hub kit but want to make sure I buy the right one the first time.<br /><br />Walleyehed you've given me some numbers to work with which is what I'm looking for. The jackplate is a idea but I have a feeling that is going to be more trouble than it's worth at the moment.(The wife is already looking for X-mas gifts too so have to watch the funds) I do need a second prop so this is a good way to fix the problem. I can't seem to find out what the manufacturer originally installed on the outboard though.(prop)<br />Dealer doesn't seem to know either.<br /><br />Thanks,<br />Tom
 

walleyehed

Admiral
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Jun 29, 2003
Messages
6,767
Re: Prop question

Stratos, most of the bigger outboards-50-60hp, and up, don't come with a prop. Who ever sets up the boat gets that choice.<br /> After thinking on this a little, I think a 15X19 would be the best choice for what you are wanting to do, you'll just have to keep it under 6K, but your hole-shot should be very good.<br /> With 16-18% slip, that would put you around 45-47mph @6000RPM......... :)
 

tscott

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
May 2, 2003
Messages
92
Re: Prop question

Now that sounds like what I'm looking for! That's plenty fast for me. When I fish, I'm relaxing, not racing all over the lake and you really can't get over 30 when your pulling a skier anyway so that is more than enough.<br /><br />Thanks walleyehed. Thats a big help.<br /><br />Tom :D
 

MrBill

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Aug 4, 2002
Messages
710
Re: Prop question

With under 300 HP, I would opt for a 3-blade, larger diameter as suggested by some others. If you can go to 15" that would be good. I think 19 pitch may be too, maybe start at 21 pitch.<br /><br />You don't mention the gear ratio (engine to prop)...that means a lot too...probably between 1.5:1 and 1.85:1. If you're at 1.5:1 - go with the 19 pitch, if you're higher, go to 21. At 5500-5600, youshould be at about 55-56 MPH top end.
 

Jdeagro

iboats.com Partner
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Jul 30, 2003
Messages
1,682
Re: Prop question

Stratos;<br /><br />You have some good prop advise, and the best of it is choosiing the prop that will give you the best top speed without over reving the engine. SOunds like you should be running between 5500 and 5800 RPMs. Your discription of the way you use your boat is a broad range of activities ( ski, fish, cruise, etc). At the moment you are not happy with the performance when pulling a skier. If you focus on that specific activity you can correct the acceleration to plane (or hole shot) issue, but you will turn more RPMs at every MPH level. The obvious result will be a loss in fuel economy, so you will pay for the prop, and pay for extra gas every time you use it. If you pro for high end you will loose the low end performance. This would lead you to believe you should have two props. One possible solution! In my opinion it is a cumbersome solution, and you will get tired changing back and forth. <br /><br />If you want to effectively use your boat over a broad range of activities, you need a device to open the window of effective use. You can not do this with specific application props. It is an old traditional way to "fix" unwanted performance characteristics (ie: hole shot). The lower pitch prop will be like driving arround the highways in low gear all the time. <br /><br />The slow acceleration on stern loaded boats is caused more by boat unbalance, than prop pitch. Once the bow goes up smooth acceleration is lost. A lower pitch prop will help acceleration in the same manner as starting out in low grear, it will help climb the hill. But, you will sacrifice performance in other areas. <br /><br />Many boat manufacturers, as well as prop manufacturers have worked very hard at addressing this issue on small boats. They try hard to avoid adding cost to small boats by adding trim tabs, and they do not want to put traditonal helm controlled trim tabs in the hands of <br />opperators who do not have experience with them. <br /><br />Use of the prop has been the accepted and safe alternative to making the boat plane better and faster on small boats, but it is a compromise. Tilt trim has been made common, which possitions the prop to push up on the stern during take off, and down when cruising to raise the bow. It can also be used to help with porpoising. The problem is that the prop by its function is for propelling and other uses simply reduce its efficiency as a propulsion device.<br /><br />Trim tabs allow the boat hull design to be adjusted to compensate for load, speed, water conditions, and balance.<br /><br />Walleyehed and Dhadley have good recomendations and you should give them consideraton (most likely no experience with Smart Tabs). If you want something that will give you Low end performance, including lower bow rise at any speed, better acceleration, 35% lower planing speeds, smoother acceleration even without 3/4 throttle, no porpoising, improved ride and tracking, and more top speed in MPH ( 2 to 4 mph) and RPMs ( 100 to 200 RPMs),and better MPG, then look at Smart Tabs. Check User comments on this site and others, plus the editorial tests by all of the major boating magazines. <br /><br />One last comment, since I have a vested interest in the product, make your own judgement about what I have said. However, the company has a performance guanteed policy!
 

walleyehed

Admiral
Joined
Jun 29, 2003
Messages
6,767
Re: Prop question

nautijohn, you ever run a bassboat in timber infested waters????? I think not....experience shows they are impracticle in this situation-great for open water, but not in the sticks.<br /> I get the impression you are a supplier for these....no????? :)
 

Hasbeen

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Aug 29, 2003
Messages
167
Re: Prop question

Mose people just do not understand that bass boats are just (designed) to be fished out of and go fast! Most people that have them will ocasionally use them as family boats and pull tubes and skiers!! The only way to do this is to have two props! One for speed, one for power!<br />The boat is always going to be stern heavy! Drop a couple pitchs and have someone sit up on the front of the boat when you are pulling a skier up! This will help a lot! Do not have your tanks full and make sure your livewells are empty!<br /><br />Hasbeen
 

Jdeagro

iboats.com Partner
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
Messages
1,682
Re: Prop question

Walleyhed;<br />Thanks for the response, Your right I do not run a bass boat, but check the web site and look at Mobster Tabs (Steal the Hole) specifically for Bass Boats ( I do have some experience). If you are referring to helm controlled tabs being held down at cruising speeds I understand your concern. Check out Smart Tabs, they are self adjusting, and up all the way by 18 to 20 mph. Also they are able to rise above horizontal so if you hit a tree limb they will just push up. Its a different kind of "animal"! <br /><br />You are correct, we are a marine industry supplier, and I have just returned from a trade show where I spent three days discussing boat performance issues with a major prop company exec / owner. I do not sell to consumers and am only trying to present viable alternatives and information. I realy do appreciate all of the feed back.
 

Jdeagro

iboats.com Partner
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
Messages
1,682
Re: Prop question

Hasbeen;<br /><br />I do understand bass boat, "Steal The Hole" with Mobster Tabs is the reason we developed them. Faster hole shot, no chine walk, more top speed in any waters, and as a kicker stay on plane at 15 to 17 MPH while you are towing the kids, and leave the prop alone. Unless you want more top speed then increase the pitch, and still get the hole shot.
 

Hasbeen

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Aug 29, 2003
Messages
167
Re: Prop question

These are obviously something new, post a website so we can take a look!! Im open to anything! Self adjusting Hmmmm, sounds interesting!<br /><br />Hasbeen
 
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