Might have forgotten the oil..

Dear all,

Fantastic forums, just the place I need!

My first question, and it's a very stupid one i'm afraid.

I've got a Fletcher with a 70hp Evinrude on - not sure of the age i'm afraid, can't find a plate or anything, but it's this one:




So, long story short - I pick up the wrong fuel tank, which doesn't have the pre-mix oil in. Engine still starts fine, ticks over fine, but it's got a clicking as it ticks over.

I'm fearing the worst here, how it's going to get worse and then.... ?!?!

Can anyone give me some more info? ie. Exactly what my negligence has done to the engine? Not too clued up on the inner mechanics of it. What will actually go wrong rather soon?

Many thanks all

Re: Might have forgotten the oil..

Are you sure you ran it without oil? You can easily determine if gasoline has oil in it because the oil has dye (usually blue or green).

If you're sure you ran it without oil, how long? What kind of speeds? How did it run?

I don't understand the term "ticks over".

Of course, as soon as you thought the fuel might not have oil, you replaced it with proper fuel, right? You're not still messing with the "unknown" fuel? Or if you left the unknown fuel in there, you have now added oil, right?

Now, with known good fuel - how does it start? Idle? Run at cruise? Run at WOT?

If you know how to check compression http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=313884, do that and post the numbers, and if you know previous numbers post them. Or have a shop check the compression for you.

Re: Might have forgotten the oil..

The main thing is to get oil to the engine parts now. If you have not done so, run it with enough oil to make sure that everything is lubricated.

Re: Might have forgotten the oil..

Hi guys,

Thanks very much for your replies.

Very sure. It started to "click" nearing the end of 20 litres of fuel, and I checked the remaining bit - definitely no oil in it.

Ran it for about an hour or so, quite hard as well, most of the time at 75-100% revs.

Apart from the clicky noise, ran fine.

As it does now - starts up as per normal, revs fine.. just this loud clicking noise, that shouldn't be there - i'll try and get a recording in a minute of it.

I've been running at 50:1 as it's an older engine, so put about 35:1 in for an hour of light usage to lubricate it up a bit.. But strange sound is still there, louder if anything!

I will attempt a compression test this weekend, thank you

Re: Might have forgotten the oil..

How long do you think you ran it without oil? They won't run 15 minutes at any significant speed with zero oil. Then the pistons will sieze and it's all over.

Re: Might have forgotten the oil..

It's a little late now but why keep a boat fuel tank with straight gas in it? I'm with FR on how long it ran. Are you sure that you didn't have a partial tank of premix that you filled with straight gas, maybe ran 100:1.

Re: Might have forgotten the oil..

I'm hoping OP's situation comes out OK. I've pre-mixed for many years and have never actually run a tank through w/o oil. I have however, more times than I care to admit, been uncertain of whether I properly mixed in my built in tanks. Yes, I could see the blue tint, but I couldn't remember if I added oil for the 15 gallon top-off I just did! Many times. So, I'd add oil and therefore probably ran over-oiled sometimes. Not a big problem, except it indicates how fallable I happen to be in doing proper premix.

Although it never did, with my kids and myself running the boat with two built in tanks, partial fills, etc, I'm quite sure that eventually someone would have completely forgotten the oil (blame it on the kids!!). Or maybe it did (but it was mitigated by the fact that raw gas was mixed in with premix resulting in a lower ratio, but not fatal.) But eventually what happened to OP would have happened.

I recently got a "new" used engine with a VRO/OMS pump. After reading about it, thoroughly checking the system and alarms, I'm convinced that with a minimum of seasonal maintenance and alarm checks, this system is much better than the human premix system, for me at least. It's not only a tidier and easier system, but especially for multiple users of the same boat, some with less attention or motivation, it is a more fool-proof system.

Re: Might have forgotten the oil..

F_R said:

How long do you think you ran it without oil? They won't run 15 minutes at any significant speed with zero oil. Then the pistons will sieze and it's all over.

Click to expand...

Lion hunter said:

It's a little late now but why keep a boat fuel tank with straight gas in it? I'm with FR on how long it ran. Are you sure that you didn't have a partial tank of premix that you filled with straight gas, maybe ran 100:1.

Click to expand...

Completely serious - it was a 20l tank, and most of it was used. Much longer than 15 minutes. Everyone i've spoken to has said exactly the same as you two as well, very suprised it didn't seize straight away.

Lion, in answer to your question - I live on a little island. My fuel tanks are with my oil, and as a routine, I always:

Go and get my fuel tank
Fill with oil
Go to fuel pump
Straight to boat

But as someone used a fuel tank to move some fuel, and left it at the fuel pump, I completely forgot about the oil!

I made a recording of the "death rattle" for you all!

http://rapidshare.com/files/260962721/boat.m4a.html

Re: Might have forgotten the oil..

I can here the tick for sure. Almost doesn't sound like an internal engine part (rods or rings) Not sure what it could be. From the audio it seems to run ok at idle. Have you looked at the reeds? Closest sound I have ever heard to that is a motorcycle that sucked a reed. I would check the obvious external parts 1st. Pull the flywheel, are the magnets loose, is everything tight, any obvious play in the crank. Pull the carb and reed body, are the reeds there and not broken. After I had ruled out everything external you could put a short piece of broom stick to your ear while someone revs the motor to the point of the noise and see if you can narrow it down. Will probably have to pull the head and see if there is slop in the pistons.

Re: Might have forgotten the oil..

I supose it still a bonus it runs but i should imagine that the tick is either a stuck ring from overheating or a rod bearing that has gone or a semi melted piston , I would not run it untill you have stripped the power head down and checked it all out it is not worth the bother of trying to guess what the noise is as the you will not mend it with a broom stick handle the only way is to strip inspect and check tolerances .

rgds
bob

Re: Might have forgotten the oil..

The broom stick is not used to mend anything, it's designed to work as a stethoscope to hear if the noise is indeed internal. Why tear down a motor if a flywheel magnet came loose and thats the cause of the noise. I was attempting to give ideas and troubleshoot a problem. When the problem is identified then tear it down and perform the work properly. He also never stated that the motor overheated or quit running so at this point there is nothing but the suspicion that it may have been run without oil. The ticking noise could indeed be what you say or something else entirely that coincidently occured.

Re: Might have forgotten the oil..

It sounds like a lollipop stick in a bicycle wheel.!

You can check for rod play by turning the engine by hand until the first piston is just ATDC (AfterTDC) then pushing down on the piston with a dowel as you hold the flywheel to keep the crankshaft from moving, if theres play you'll feel it.

Do all pistons.

But I think it would just be quicker to pop the head's off , or exh covers.

Re: Might have forgotten the oil..

Lion hunter said:

The broom stick is not used to mend anything, it's designed to work as a stethoscope to hear if the noise is indeed internal. Why tear down a motor if a flywheel magnet came loose and thats the cause of the noise. I was attempting to give ideas and troubleshoot a problem. When the problem is identified then tear it down and perform the work properly. He also never stated that the motor overheated or quit running so at this point there is nothing but the suspicion that it may have been run without oil. The ticking noise could indeed be what you say or something else entirely that coincidently occured.

Click to expand...

Nothing apart from the fact he said he was very sure it had been run without oil and it has now started making a rattling noise , now that to me would mean that there has been some internal damage substained , now you can poke it with a stick for as long as you like and diagnose the whole day long but it aint going to fix it.

The engine "HAS" been run without oil now it "IS" making a noise put down the stick and pick up the spanner , strip and inspect otherwise his repair bill might go up another thousand if he does not.

Re: Might have forgotten the oil..

Hope you find the issue drucey. I digress from this conversation before it turns into an arguement. Good luck and I hope all turns out well.